Universal Credit and non-EU immigrants

[John Green]

My wife from outside the EU hopes to join me this year in the UK. I am a UK citizen.

Because of her age, lack of experience, etc. she will find it hard to get work in the UK. Therefore, I plan to subsidise her for the 5 years until she can apply for UK benefits. She will look hard for work, but there are no guarantees. In any case, she probably does not have the time to build up a UK state pension. (She is in her 50s)

I understand that when she reaches 67, she is entitled to the means tested Pension Credit, for those without a pension (insufficient National Insurance credits in their own name).

After 5 years in the UK and having either IRL or UK citizenship. she can also apply for the new Universal Credit system. This replaces, for example, Income Support.

I phoned Universal Credit but they basically knew nothing and referred me to the Gov.Uk website which so far as I know is not helpful. There are two issues I need answers to.

First, my wife only gets a National Insurance number after she has lived in the UK for 5 years and gets IRL. Is this correct? She does not need to apply for and to get UK citizenship to get her own National Insurance number? This is also the same rule for Pension Credit, I assume.

Second, I was told by Universal Credit that she has to be a UK citizen (have a UK passport) to get Universal Credit. Simply getting IRL is not sufficient to get this benefit. Is this also correct?

Thank you again for your help.

[Casa]

If your wife is only in her 50's she is along way off from retirement at 65. There's not much point in asking about Universal Credit entitlement that far ahead as it may well no longer be in place. Things change, often from one year to the next. Also you say that you plan to 'subsidise her' for the 5 years while she is unable to claim Public funds. As her husband you are required to support your wife throughout the marriage...you can't expect the taxpayer to take on the responsibility.

[John Green]

When I die (I am 12 years older) and she reaches 67, she needs to know what is available to help, a simple question.

And I did find out that she can claim the means tested Pension Credit. There are two questions.

First she presumably needs a National Insurance number, yes, for this? Is it issued only after her being in the UK for 5 years and then gets ILR?

Secondly, to get Pension Credit, does she have to take out UK citizenship (have a UK passport)? Or is her residing in the UK enough? I imagine/expect the latter case, but just to be clear.

I know the rules change, but all anyone can do is to explain the rules that we do know are going to be in place in 2016 and I was given out of date info once already. The issue of UK pensions and benefits generally is one where it is difficult to get advice.

[CR001]

First, my wife only gets a National Insurance number after she has lived in the UK for 5 years and gets IRL. Is this correct? She does not need to apply for and to get UK citizenship to get her own National Insurance number? This is also the same rule for Pension Credit, I assume.

Why would you think she is only entitled to a national insurance number after 5 years residence? You are misunderstanding many things.

She can apply for a national insurance number the day she arrives in the UK, in fact it is recommended to apply for one as soon as possible. She cannot work at all if she does not have one. National Insurance number and pension credit are two separate things.

Suggest you work and focus on getting your wife to the UK first, get her settled with the important things (bank acc, NI number, name added to utility bills etc), let her find a job (there are many) and worry about everything else when the time comes or is appropriate for each stage she will go through.

Once she has ILR (indefinite leave to remain) she can claim any benefits which she qualifies for, she does not have to wait till she is a British Citizen. She cannot claim benefits before she has ILR.

As casa says, anything can change and so it is pointless to ponder on things now that might not be in 15 years time.

[John Green]

Thanks for the answer, appreciated.

On the general point, I've yet to discover anywhere aside from this forum where I can get answers to my questions. This morning, for example, I phoned two places up who were finally unable to help. They then gave me the phone number of a third place that only deals with legal aid clients! cAnd the Citizens Advice Bureau gave me out of date information.

Again, I understand that the rules change. I have no problems in supporting her, but she does obviously ask me what will happen after I die, which is stastically going to be before her. I just want to reassure her that come what may, when she will be living in the UK, and after I am gone, the UK state will provide (if necessary) the basic help she needs. As her husband, I try to give her an accurate picture, even if we can only speak for the situation in 2016.

[CR001]

If you pass away and she has ILR or British Citizenship, she will be fine. She will not be 'kicked out' etc. She might not live a life of luxury but she won't be abandoned, if that makes sense.

[John Green]

I will tell her to assure her. Because she comes from a country where the public services are "basic" to say the least, and the average state pension is 100 euros a MONTH, she naturally wants a better material life in the UK when she reaches 67. And that she will have that basic level of stability to depend upon. Because of my personal savings, I rarely receive UK benefits, so I'm in the dark when people ask me about these things.

[Casa]

...and of course if you bequeath those savings to your wife, she will also have the same limited need/access to benefits.

[Petaltop]

I understand that when she reaches 67, she is entitled to the means tested Pension Credit, for those without a pension (insufficient National Insurance credits in their own name.

Pension Credit will be based on both your incomes, including any pensions she has earned in her country and all your pensions, including those not taken. If your joint income takes you over the limit for PC, then you are expected to keep your wife. Do you get PC now or do you have too much income?

Don't bank on that PC being around for much longer as the new state pension that starts in April, has been set just above the PC limit so that there is no need for PC anymore for those that have spent their working life in the UK. As the UK state pension was changed so that the UK doesn't use the welfare state money for those foreign nationals that haven't contributed much to the UK, it is highly likey that PC will go the same way for these elderly foreign nationals who arrive in later life.

It really isn't a good idea to base retirement plans on what welfare payments are now. The UK has an annual welfare cap that has just started, to stop the ever growing welfare bill. All governments will have to keep to this cap, meaning some tough decisons on benefits made by each government. The only benefits outside that cap (and can't be ended, changed or reduced) is the the UK State pension and income based Job Seeker's Allowance for those of working age, although JSA has some strict conditions and is time limited.

Have you looked at your private pension to see if this will transfer in part to your wife on your death? Made a will so that she gets your property and savings? Thought about downsizing your propert to release cash for her old age too? Got life policies set up?

[Petaltop]

After 5 years in the UK and having either IRL or UK citizenship. she can also apply for the new Universal Credit system. This replaces, for example, Income Support.

Income Support and it's replacement benefit, Universal Credit, is not for those that have reached the UK state retirement age. It is also based on both of your incomes. Any savings/capital/land or property that you don't live in (in any country) that totals over 16k, also means you can't have Income Support or UC.

[John Green]

Thanks guys.

In order for her to work, she needs to get as soon as possible a National Insurance Number. Presumably, when she applies for work, the prospective employer needs this. Where does she get this number from? Who does she ask?

Her access to the NHS as my wife. I am told she can access (after I pay the health surcharge of £600 for the 5 years to ILR) it from day one. Does she needs to ask for some sort of documentation to access a GP surgery taking NHS patients and NHS hospital care until she gets ILR in 5 years? The same for NHS dental care?

Because of my personal savings, I have never had to bother with UK benefits issues. So I know about how savings affect the ability to get benefits. I get a UK state pension later this year, and as that is not means tested, it works out a lot better for me. I received a pension forecast in 2015.

I want to alter my will so that the house I own goes to her or her family. There is also the issue of equity release that I've heard of but know little about. At any rate, I can quite easily afford to support her to ILR and probably beyond that point.

Of course, when I die the situation for her will somewhat deteriorate since there will be no UK state pension coming in for her to use. I do have a small occupational pension and apparently, she can (on my death) claim up to 50 percent of this. Because it's small (we are talking of £40 a week max.) I don't imagine it would affect her ability to claim Pension Credit when she gets to 67 years of age.

[CR001]

Thanks guys.

In order for her to work, she needs to get as soon as possible a National Insurance Number. Presumably, when she applies for work, the prospective employer needs this. Where does she get this number from? Who does she ask? She applies through the Department of Works and Pension and can do so at the Jobcentre Plus

Her access to the NHS as my wife. I am told she can access (after I pay the health surcharge of £600 for the 5 years to ILR) it from day one. Does she needs to ask for some sort of documentation to access a GP surgery taking NHS patients and NHS hospital care until she gets ILR in 5 years? The same for NHS dental care? She needs to register at a GP surgery. She does not need documents to prove she is entitled. Her visa will allow her to have full access. Dental care is paid service and NOT free, as it is for any other person (British or foreign) in the UK.

Because of my personal savings, I have never had to bother with UK benefits issues. So I know about how savings affect the ability to get benefits. I get a UK state pension later this year, and as that is not means tested, it works out a lot better for me. I received a pension forecast in 2015.

I want to alter my will so that the house I own goes to her or her family. There is also the issue of equity release that I've heard of but know little about. At any rate, I can quite easily afford to support her to ILR and probably beyond that point.

Of course, when I die the situation for her will somewhat deteriorate since there will be no UK state pension coming in for her to use. I do have a small occupational pension and apparently, she can (on my death) claim up to 50 percent of this. Because it's small (we are talking of £40 a week max.) I don't imagine it would affect her ability to claim Pension Credit when she gets to 67 years of age.

[Casa]

Note that the NHS surcharge is not £600 for the full 5 year period. It is an initial £600 followed by a further payment of £500 when your wife applies for FLR(M) in 2.5 years time. The minimum income or savings level will also have to be met for FLR(M).

Also bear in mind that the Government intend to introduce an additional English test when applying for FLR(M) at the higher A2 level, followed by B1 and Life in the UK tests for ILR.

[John Green]

Would it not be £1,000 for the full 5 years period? Here is what the Gov.Uk website says:

"£200 per year for all other visa and immigration applications, eg £1,000 for a 5-year visa"

But this is also confusing. I went through the Gov.Uk Health Surcharge calculator and it came up with the £600 figure. What it did not say is for how long this is for. ("Based on the information provided we have calculated that your total Immigration Health Surcharge is
£600.00")

I meet the Financial Requirement on my savings. I know (because it is means tested) about NHS dental care not being free. However, they say that NHS dental care is usually cheaper than the private alternative.

[Casa]

The initial payment is £600 as the entry visa is issued for a period of 33 months. i.e £200 per year or part thereof = £600. Assuming your joint income doesn't meet the £18,600 p.a level when your wife applies for FLR(M) you will have to maintain minimum savings of £62,500.

[CR001]

Would it not be £1,000 for the full 5 years period? Here is what the Gov.Uk website says:

"£200 per year for all other visa and immigration applications, eg £1,000 for a 5-year visa"

But this is also confusing. I went through the Gov.Uk Health Surcharge calculator and it came up with the £600 figure. What it did not say is for how long this is for. ("Based on the information provided we have calculated that your total Immigration Health Surcharge is
£600.00")

I meet the Financial Requirement on my savings.

The first entry clearance visa she applies for is valid for 33 months, hence the first immigration health surcharge fee is £600 (£200 per full year plus £100 per part year).

When she applies for an extension of her spouse visa (shortly before the first one expires), she has to pay the immigration health surcharge again which is £500 (£200 per full year and £100 per part year).

[John Green]

Thanks. The Gov.Uk website is not exactly clear on this, but then I suppose what's new?

[CR001]

So actually (though they are not explicit about this) the maths is:

£600 for the first half of the settlement process, of 2 1/2 years

A further £200 a year for each of the remaining years to ILR, in this case coming to that £400 (they are only counting it as 2 years rather than 2 1/2 years).

No, first visa is 33 months and second visa is 2.5 years. Surcharge is £600 for first visa and £500 for second visa. You have to pay £100 for any part year period.

The total surcharge for a spouse visa is £1,100

[Casa]

Thanks. The Gov.Uk website is not exactly clear on this, but then I suppose what's new?

No! £600 for 33 months, not 2.5 years (30 months) + £500 for 2.5 years, not £400 for 2 years. Total charge: £600 + £500 = £1100

CR001 has explained the calculation clearly.

[Petaltop]

As casa says, anything can change and so it is pointless to ponder on things now that might not be in 15 years time.

Especially not Pension Credit as they are moving to where only those who have never contributed to the UK, could claim PC. Why would PC continue? They will no longer give a UK state pension to those that haven't contributed much to the UK and are going to stop paying for the wives and chilldren of old and poor Brits who move to another country, marry a young women and have children with them.

It really isn't a good idea to base retirement in a decades time, on benefits now. Set a private pension up for her if she is looking for you to give assurances for her old age in the UK.

[Petaltop]

Perhaps the assurances about money that your wife wants before she moves to the UK, is just for you to put her name on your property too and on your savings accounts?

Saying thinks like you will support her for 5 years, can't be helping because by marrying her in later life you should be supporting her for the rest of her life and not just for 5 years.

[Casa]

+1 Petaltop. To be brutally honest, it would concern me if my husband said that he could quite easily afford to support me to ILR and 'probably beyond that point.'
As a matter of interest, in a previous thread you were asking for advice on how long it would take for a Romanian national to qualify for BC. What nationality does your wife hold?

[CR001]

As a matter of interest, in a previous thread you were asking for advice on how long it would take for a Romanian national to qualify for BC. What nationality does your wife hold?

Very good point Casa. As obviously Romanian Citizens don't need a spouse visa and have the right to free movement between states.

[Petaltop]

+1 Petaltop. To be brutally honest, it would concern me if my husband said that he could quite easily afford to support me to ILR and 'probably beyond that point.'

Technically she already owns half of their joint assets (his house and savings in his sole name) as they are married, but it would be a lot easier for her if she had access to this money to not be in poverty in the UK if she can't find work.

As a matter of interest, in a previous thread you were asking for advice on how long it would take for a Romanian national to qualify for BC. What nationality does your wife hold?

An EEA ntiaonal who is exercising treaty rights as a Self Sufficient qualified person, based on the OPs money, and buying health insurance would do.

The OP would still have to support his wife and a lot longer that the 5 years it seems he is prepared to keep her as the UK benefit rules would be the same - no more 60% of his UK state pension. The end of Pension Credit benefits would affect those using free movement too as their own family would have to finance their elderly relatives in the UK.

[John Green]

I can only give her the information pertinent for now, and really the rest is speculation. Who knows, in 5 years, we might be living in Spain? Maybe they will abolish financial support for the unemployed to get them looking for work more seriously, maybe they will abolish Pension Credit and don't replace it, the list goes on of possibilities. As for a private pension, my income is low and I am 64, so I'm not sure this is an option. (For the Financial Requirement, I rely on my personal savings, which is well over the £62,500 required.)

I should be able to support her over 5 years but its the stage when she retires at 67 which is more interesting, depedent on what my finances are like then. She is presently 52 and who knows the situation in 15 years' time.