Universal Credit and non-EU immigrants

[CR001]

I can only give her the information pertinent for now, and really the rest is speculation. Who knows, in 5 years, we might be living in Spain? Maybe they will abolish financial support for the unemployed to get them looking for work more seriously, maybe they will abolish Pension Credit and don't replace it, the list goes on of possibilities. As for a private pension, my income is low and I am 64, so I'm not sure this is an option. (For the Financial Requirement, I rely on my personal savings, which is well over the £62,500 required.)

It would be helpful if you could state your wifes nationality given that you have alluded previously with questions to a Romanian citizen.

[John Green]

No, her background is Ukrainian. However, her son (because of his own grandparents) do have a Romanian connection.

[CR001]

Can she not get a romanian passport or citizenship?

It would make the process so much easier and cheaper if she could.

[Petaltop]

I can only give her the information pertinent for now, and really the rest is speculation. Who knows, in 5 years, we might be living in Spain?

Except that if you did and she wasn't working in Spain then you would need to buy private health insurance for her. Last year the UK stopped paying the healthbills for all those who retired to another EEA country. Now, the UK will only pay the health bills of those that are in receipt of a UK state pension - and that pension will now only be given on the persons own contributions.

[Petaltop]

Maybe they will abolish financial support for the unemployed to get them looking for work more seriously,

They kindof have. Income based JSA is limited to just 2 years now (but just 6 months for EEA nationals) There is a cap on the amount of other benefits they can have, while the EEA jobseekers now can't have any other benefits while they look for work.

During their time on JSA they must go on all sorts of work programmes and if they don't do what they are told then they can be sanctioned (lose their JSA) for 3 months for their first sanction and up to 3 years in they still don't do what they are told to do . They then have to apply for a reference to be able to access the foodbanks, but even those references are limited to just so many per month. Universal Credit is even tougher as it will include those who claim Tax Credits too.

I should be able to support her over 5 years but its the stage when she retires at 67 which is more interesting, depedent on what my finances are like then.

Any benefits claim would still be based on your joint incomes as the claim would have to be in both names. Savings can affect income based benefit claiIms too.

Another change to Pension Credit is that both must now be of state pension age.

[John Green]

The son is clear he can get the Romanian passport. As you say, it makes things a LOT easier. I reminded him to ask about my wife, but the rules may say that only some blood relatives are counted towards deciding if she can get the Romanian passport. He is asking.

With respect to Spain, I reach 65 in December. If we considered living in Spain, this I imagine would entitle me (my UK citizenship) to some "free" health care if we chose to live in Spain. What this would be I don't know. Presumably, outside of my taking out private health insurance, this would be on the same basis of Spanish people living there.

For my wife, she would get Spanish health care on the same basis of Spanish people? If she is treated as an individual with respect to getting a state pension at 67, under the new April rules, and therefore may well not qualify for a UK state pension (as opposed to her ability to access Pension Credit, means tested) what would her health care status be if we lived in Spain? Whether she took out UK citizenship or simply just went for permanent residence in the UK.

[Casa]

The son is clear he can get the Romanian passport. As you say, it makes things a LOT easier. I reminded him to ask about my wife, but the rules may say that only some blood relatives are counted towards deciding if she can get the Romanian passport. He is asking.

With respect to Spain, I reach 65 in December. If we considered living in Spain, this I imagine would entitle me (my UK citizenship) to some "free" health care if we chose to live in Spain. What this would be I don't know. Presumably, outside of my taking out private health insurance, this would be on the same basis of Spanish people living there.

For my wife, she would get Spanish health care on the same basis of Spanish people? If she is treated as an individual with respect to getting a state pension at 67, under the new April rules, and therefore may well not qualify for a UK state pension (as opposed to her ability to access Pension Credit, means tested) what would her health care status be if we lived in Spain? Whether she took out UK citizenship or simply just went for permanent residence in the UK.

Your last sentence is slightly confusing. Are you asking if your wife would be entitled to free health care in Spain if she had PR or British citizenship? It would be wise to read the information in this link:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/healthcare-in-spain

[John Green]

Thanks Casa.

What advantages would her applying for UK citizenship give her? She would get the passport, which means she can come and go freely, and she could vote, I imagine. What else would there be?

Against this are the more restrictive residency requirements in order to apply for UK citizenship. In particular, that she can only leave the UK for a maximum of 90 days in a year. But when does this rule apply? At what stage in the 5 years wait to UK settlement? Does this rule (having to live 9 months per year in the UK) only apply for example in the FINAL 2 years of the 5 years leading up to ILR? Or the final 3 years for example?

Before then, so long as she doesn't push her luck and live outside the UK for a majority of the year, I believe that the UKVI people are more relaxed about how long she leaves the UK for.

I've read of a "Certificate of Entitlement." Any idea if I need to consider this?

[noajthan]

You seem to have a lot of confusion over very straightforward rules & requirements.
(The UK is comparatively liberal in its requirements).

Regarding absences before applying for the privilege of citizenship see section 5 of readily-available HO guidance, here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... r_2015.pdf

As to living in any other EU country, suggest start with the basics, here:
http://ec.europa.eu/justice/citizen/doc ... 013_en.pdf

[Casa]

The Certificate of Entitlement doesn't apply to your wife's situation. Disregard it.

[John Green]

Much appreciated. Just to be clear. These rules of November 2015 for Naturalization are identical with those for Citizenship?

[Casa]

Naturalisation is the most common process through which to acquire citizenship.

[Wanderer]

In my opinion the future is to work till you drop I'm afraid, pensions are being eroded, people keep living too long, even the more advanced socialist States are seeing this.

I'm lucky, I don't mind, I love my work, I'll do it till I die, but the days of expecting the State to look after you or your family after you shuffle your mortal coil are diminishing to the point in a few years they'll be gone especially if we don't get a proper socialist government soon, and we won't as we have too many people with vested interests now attempting to protect the meagre assets they still cling to.

[John Green]

Does this give a full and accurate summary:

https://www.gov.uk/becoming-a-british-citizen

[Casa]

Ok, so when they refer to getting UK Citizenship they are, in effect, usually referring also to UK Naturalisation? Was there something about Naturalization being stopped or phased out soon leaving just UK citizenship (same rules)?

I'll repeat - UK Naturalisation is a process you go through to be granted British citizenship. If naturalisation was removed there would be no citizenship. You've confused yourself by over thinking.

[John Green]

I just edited the post I made. You are very quick at replying!

The thing that confuses me a little is this 3 years it mentions on the Gov.Uk website.

Normally, she will have to wait 5 years for ILR.

So when they refer to this 3 years during which she cannot spend over 270 days before she applies for citizenship:

they are referring to the "fact" that she can spend the first two years (of the total of 5 years) returning to her home country more often. But after the first two years residence in the UK, then these more limiting residency rules kick in if she wants, in 3 years' time, to get citizenship.

So there are two periods to a total of 5 years: first 2 years residing in UK under more liberal residency rules. But the last 3 years she has, to get citizenship at the ned of this 3 years. to adhere to the more stringent residence rules.

Is this correct?

[Casa]

Does this give a full and accurate summary:

https://www.gov.uk/becoming-a-british-citizen

Of course it does. It's the official guidance. It can't be more accurate than that!

[Wanderer]

Does this give a full and accurate summary:

https://www.gov.uk/becoming-a-british-citizen

For now yes, things can change very quickly, I wouldn't base any plans on it.

[CR001]

@JohnGreen - I would strongly suggest that you focus your attention and energy on actually first getting the spouse visa and getting your wife to the UK. You are wasting time and energy pondering things that are a long way off from now, especially as your wife is not even in the country yet.

She can't apply for citizenship for at least 5 years. Let it go for now, please and work on the first spouse visa instead to get it right.

[Casa]

Does this give a full and accurate summary:

https://www.gov.uk/becoming-a-british-citizen

For now yes, things can change very quickly, I wouldn't base any plans on it.

+1 Wanderer. I was about to recommend caution when pre-planning. Much can change in Immigration land in five years...even from one year to the next.

[John Green]

I understand guys. It's just that she wants to come here to be with me. However, she has some family ties to her home country that mean she will probably need and want to return to see them (she has kids from a first marriage) and what I need to make sure is that in her first two years of UK residency, she does not break the UK citizenship rules through ignorance and later regrets it.

[Wanderer]

It's a bit like telling John Lennon life begins at forty, you just don't know, one thing is for sure, don't plan it, it will happen anyway...

[avjones]

Because of her age, lack of experience, etc. she will find it hard to get work in the UK. Therefore, I plan to subsidise her for the 5 years until she can apply for UK benefits.
Thank you again for your help.

She won't get benefits on her own account even once she has ILR if your savings / income etc go over the relevant threshold. Your income will be relevant to her means-tested entitlement to benefits.