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Visa refused based on market research and email communications

Only for UK Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) points system. This route is now closed to new applicants.

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Saibabashir123
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Visa refused based on market research and email communications

Post by Saibabashir123 » Fri May 04, 2018 3:56 pm

Hi
Applied extension on 2March2017
Received refusal letter dated 30April
Reasons for refusal
Market research
Sign board not displayed at office address
No records of employee annual leaves
CO states that Office admin was interviewed and not provided with answers of her work activities
No email communications
No job description available for the admin
Points awarded for business activity engaged 0
And job creation 0
Please help what to do so stressed
After so much of efforts and long wait

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marcnath
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Re: Visa refused based on market research and email communications

Post by marcnath » Fri May 04, 2018 4:34 pm

Sorry to hear about this.

Try not to get too stressed up - this is not in your control.

Difficult to provide any suggestion without all the background. But if you don't think the decision was correct, then prepare an AR to explain why
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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Re: Visa refused based on market research and email communications

Post by Saibabashir123 » Fri May 04, 2018 5:08 pm

Hi Marcnath
Thanks for reply
Please help us in further steps
Clients
You state that 4clients but we’re unable to provide any evidence of the work undertaken nor were able to show any email communication

But showed emails of invoices and few other emails which the CO said Ok

Market Research

Saibabashir123
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Re: Visa refused based on market research and email communications

Post by Saibabashir123 » Sat May 05, 2018 12:32 am

Initial visa September 2009 as a student
Applied Post Study work April 2010
Applied Tier 1 initial application December 2012
Rejected May 2013
Appeal succeeded December 2013
Received brp and passport march 2014
Applied Tier 1 extension March 2017
Interview done at office premises September 2017
Received ihs refund January 2018
Refusal received may
Reason for the refusal
single director with 50000 shares in Other IT services company

Clients
You state that you had 4 clients but you were unable to provide any evidence of the work undertaken nor were you able to show any email communication as evidence.

Handed the recent invoices contacts and showed the mails sent to the clients of invoices but not the actual work and also explained what sort of work we carry out for the clients briefly and not in detail as she was questioning continuously
I don't have much of emails as I directly work with the clients as I'm also one of the shareholders in their companies.

Market Research
You provided no evidence to show the results of any specific market research during the visit. when asked about market research you stated you always visited markets and high streets walking and speak to the people but no money was spent and you were not able to show any results
You were also unable to provide any research into existing business in the Bognor Regis area
This leads us to doubt the credibility of the business as no specific market research shown

I did explained her what kind of research I carried out
Use to visit the local events and speak to people and explain them about our company and would gain knowledge about theirs and get sufficient knowledge from their business
Use to visit all the familiar companies and analyse how they deal with clients and charges
And I named all the companies in my region and how much they charge per hour
Also explained her what kind of developments are going to take place and how that will impact on my company growth, how the new massive university that is built in my area can get me few more contracts as my business in near by the college

Advertising/Breakdown of spend
you were asked how much you had spent on advertising and what forms of advertising you have used and where you have advertised. You stated you have spent 400£ a year in local newspaper and used gumtree but gained no clients
the compliance officer requested a copy of the advert which you were not able to provide
you were also unable to breakdown how you invested money into business. You stated that you have spent 18000£on wages when the company did not have the money
We would expert someone running their business to have an understanding of advertising spend or breakdown of spend

Unfortunately I haven’t gained any clients for gumtree advert, I have done my best to gain clients but I can't do anything if I don't get a client for my post and done adverts in various advert company's
I did give her a copy of my gumtree ad, back page ad and also Facebook ad, All these adverts are also submitted with extension application as supporting documents
I did explain about how the money was invested, as I spent the x amount on the wages and the remaining money was still in the account and also reflects in the submitted three months business bank statements

Contracts
There was no signage at the address showing the name of the your company
You stated you had 4 contracts but you were unable to provide a detailed description of the services you provided. Also you were unable to provide details of your client’s business premises
We would expect some one running their business to have an understanding of the services they provide and their client’s premises
Overall this leads us to doubt the credibility of your business activity

Yes there is no signage at the address, because as a small IT support company I don’t need a signage
I did stick my business card on the front door of the reception and also there is a sign on front glass of the office

The credibility of the job creation for which you are claiming points
During the visit you stated that you have two staff including x who works as admin
No job description available for role
Compliance officer states he asked x to show her work, such as emails. She confirmed she does not send or receive e mails; she just waits for the phone to ring. She was asked about monitoring contracts to ensure dates don’t expire. She did not know
No evidence shown of admin work
Also no records of annual leave for employees available
This leads us to doubt the credibility of your job creation.

Yes I have two staff in the company and one of the staff (admin) was present at the time of interview
And when she started showing her daily activities the compliance officer as of a sudden became rude to her, shouting on her to show what kind of work you carry out.
As the admin got anxiety problem and was unable to tell one of the company name in confusion as the officer was keep on shouting her.
Points awarded for business activity 0 and job creation 0

NOTE: I did email the CO twice to send the interview notes and she failed to send me and didn't even respond to my emails.
While she was leaving after the interview I've checked if i need to send any additional documents, then she asked only about the office rent lease, which I've emailed her.
If there were any documents required she would have asked me, which was not done.
She said that the case worker will email me the interview transcript once she handes it over to them, but that was never emailed to me.
She has written half cooked notes that is of no use. This shows that she was not confident enough of what was written
How to complain about this unfairness and being unresponsive.
What are the chances of admin review?

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Re: Visa refused based on market research and email communications

Post by Saibabashir123 » Sat May 05, 2018 12:06 pm

Hi Marcnath and Zimba
Could you please look into the above refusal notes

Any suggestions for the AR

Saibabashir123
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Re: Visa refused based on market research and email communications

Post by Saibabashir123 » Sat May 05, 2018 4:14 pm

Hi sorry for troubling you
But it’s bit urgent
As we don’t have much time to prepare for AR pushing hard
I’m really worried and I’m stuck
I have got multiple business and have done so much of investment
Not sure where this AR leads to
Please provide any advices and suggestions
Thanks much in advance

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Re: Visa refused based on market research and email communications

Post by marcnath » Sun May 06, 2018 6:42 am

Unfortunately, I am not sure if there is much more that I can add here.
You have some convincing explanations so you just need to go with those in the AR.
Some things that potentially need to be addressed better are:

I don't have much of emails as I directly work with the clients as I'm also one of the shareholders in their companies.
Are you a shareholder in all of your clients ? If so, this argument would be of concern unless you can argue that your business was set up specifically to serve own companies.

You stated that you have spent 18000£on wages when the company did not have the money
Not sure what that means - it looks like you paid out money even before you invested ?
I spent the x amount on the wages and the remaining money was still in the account
It also looks like the only expense was wages and nothing else - that does not seem typical of a normal business. So this would not be an explanation in your favour.

There is no requirement to have a signage. You seem to have done minimum necessary to meet the rules. So that should be easy to argue.

Good luck with your AR
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

Saibabashir123
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Re: Visa refused based on market research and email communications

Post by Saibabashir123 » Sun May 06, 2018 7:44 am

Hi Marcnath
Thankyou very much for your reply

I have got two clients where I’m not the shareholder in those companies

How about Market research? What can I say as she has written half cooked notes
I said around 10points that I have done SMART analysis
I have met the other companies around my regioni
I attend business and entrepreneurs meetings and new business opportunities
I asked questions to the clients and any feedback as and when required

About the payslips
I have paid one month pay late which was made in another month, as my clients didn’t pay me themoney and as my wife has miscarriage we were in real depression and were in that loss
I couldn’t concentrate much in business and hence paid up late for the first month wages
I have taken the no objection letter from my employees
Will it be ok to explain?
But the rest of money I have paid it from the contracts and from the investment
I do pay accountant and office rent from my business bank
I pay for adverts too
As I’m in hardware and maintenance I don’t require much investment hence the money stays

I did remember the address and I said the address
I also said about the services I provide
I explained how we install buttons on POS
Allocate trainings
How we repair the CCTV
How we look into LAN issues
How I perform health check
Fix the hardware and laptops
Install the softwares and check the compatability across all devices of one of the clients app

I couldn’t show all these there because they are real time events
What I understand here is
As per the CO-a doctor can be proved a doctor only when he operates in front of CO interview else he is not a credible doctor
But a doctor can not operate on someone until it’s required
Does that mean doctor is not genuine??

And about the admin who didn’t answer well already has anxiety syndrome

She was too rude at her and she was panic attacked, hence she couldn’t answer and when she was about to show the excels she work on the interviews she takes and email reply she provide from office if CO was not in a position to listen

The CO was supposed to come by 10am but came only by 12pm and was so frustrated

She can’t take her frustration on my intrveeiw
When I asked for my interview transcript why couldn’t she provide it
If she would have provided I would send them all the documents by post atleast
Is there any chance that I can fight in AR about the notes not received and they are fishy and are incomplete ones
Please Marcnath your inputs are highly appreciated
I can’t think of anything much at the moment
I feel humiliated and defamed by the way she represented my business and me
When I can’t speak about my business how do I manage three business and grow here?
She had made contradictory statement of saying I didn’t know the office premises of my clients
What’s the chance of AR being overturned
How can I complain and file a case aganaist the trauma she created and how it has impacted my personality
I can’t digest the way that she has written

Please help me Marcnath
Appreciate your time and efforts in reading such a lengthy post and replying thank you so much

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Re: Visa refused based on market research and email communications

Post by Saibabashir123 » Mon May 07, 2018 6:48 am

Hi Marcnath
Morning
Can you please provide valid statements for the AR for the rest of the points mentioned above
This is not going out of my thoughts
How can I be defamed just because of the understanding she got
She just saw the business in her view not as how it runs
Is there anything I can apart from complaining
This is in humane.
Can you please answer for the rest of the points like how can I defend for that
The office admin uses the clients and office email ids she directly works from that ids and she doesn’t specifically have email id
It’s the generic company’s id
She has answered the same and she has half written that she don’t have email Id
Is this mandatory for an employee to have an email Id?

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Re: Visa refused based on market research and email communications

Post by marcnath » Mon May 07, 2018 9:32 am

Unfortunately, I am not an authorised immigration adviser and so cannot provide you possible answers/statements for your AR.

If you have not done so and feel the need to do so, you should contact a registered adviser.

I have been sharing my views to give some ideas.

I understand the situation and empathise with you.

While I think the genuine entrepreneur test is a good thing, I believe it is not being used the way it was intended.

But since it is not in any of our control, the best is try not to get worked up and try to set feelings aside and make logical arguments in your AR.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

Saibabashir123
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Re: Visa refused based on market research and email communications

Post by Saibabashir123 » Mon May 07, 2018 10:17 am

Thanks much Marcnath
we can’t trust in them anymore as they give their opinion in money making perspective
What if my AR decision is not overturned and if I make a second extension with all the three businesses and meanwhile if I hit ten years route can I vary it to ILR
Do they consider second application on its own or do they look into first application once again?
They haven’t awarded points for business engagement and job creation
So can I claim these attributes now from the other business I have?
The second business I have bought from the previous owner
How can I prove that the jobs is increased by two?
Please provide answers in the view of second application
Thanks much for your valuable time

Saibabashir123
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Re: Visa refused based on market research and email communications

Post by Saibabashir123 » Tue May 08, 2018 6:50 am

Morning Marcnath
Could you please help me with the above queries
Your help is highly appreciated
Sorry for pushing u
But don’t know what to do
Can you please help with second application outcomes
Can I vary to tier 2 dependent from the fresh application if my wife gets tier2
Thanks much in advance

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Re: Visa refused based on market research and email communications

Post by marcnath » Tue May 08, 2018 8:22 am

Saibabashir123 wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 10:17 am

What if my AR decision is not overturned and if I make a second extension with all the three businesses and meanwhile if I hit ten years route can I vary it to ILR
Yes, you should be able to
Saibabashir123 wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 10:17 am
Do they consider second application on its own or do they look into first application once again?
They should be looking at it on its own, but of course your file will have the old application too.
Saibabashir123 wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 10:17 am
They haven’t awarded points for business engagement and job creation
So can I claim these attributes now from the other business I have?
Yes, you can
Saibabashir123 wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 10:17 am
The second business I have bought from the previous owner
How can I prove that the jobs is increased by two?
You will have to submit payslips and FPS documents for 12 months before you bought the business. So they can see that there is an increase of two jobs
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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Re: Visa refused based on market research and email communications

Post by Saibabashir123 » Tue May 08, 2018 8:47 am

Thank you so much for your help
Highly appreciated

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Re: Visa refused based on market research and email communications

Post by Saibabashir123 » Tue May 08, 2018 10:14 am

Hi Marcnath
Thank you for your kind response
I’m sorry to interrupt another help needed please
The previous owner where we bought business didn’t provide the payslips and FPS
In this case how can I prove that I increased jobs
Can you please help
The owner promised us to provide those but when. I check my emails he didn’t provide any
How can we get these payslips and FPS from previous owner
As of now he is not here and left the country long back
Please advice

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Re: Visa refused based on market research and email communications

Post by marcnath » Tue May 08, 2018 12:08 pm

Saibabashir123 wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 10:14 am
Hi Marcnath
Thank you for your kind response
I’m sorry to interrupt another help needed please
The previous owner where we bought business didn’t provide the payslips and FPS
In this case how can I prove that I increased jobs
Can you please help
The owner promised us to provide those but when. I check my emails he didn’t provide any
How can we get these payslips and FPS from previous owner
As of now he is not here and left the country long back
Please advice
Unfortunately, it was your responsibility to ensure proper handover of the documents. You obviously paid the previous owner without ensuring everything was handed over. It is going to tough to blame anyone else.

You can try asking HMRC but I am not sure if they will.

Also the accountant who handled this for the previous owner should be able to.

But if you are not able to get the information, you will not be able to use the job creation of that business.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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Re: Visa refused based on market research and email communications

Post by Saibabashir123 » Tue May 08, 2018 1:04 pm

Thanks much for your response Marcnath
Will try any of the way
Thank you

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Re: Visa refused based on market research and email communications

Post by Saibabashir123 » Wed May 09, 2018 7:57 pm

Hi Marcnath
Thanks for your replies
Need some help
The solicitors are suggesting that this can be overturned in the Judicial review
So is it worth going for JR
What are the things that happen during JR
If JR is refused can I go back to home country and come on 200k route?
After JR do I need to have a one year cooling of period

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Re: Visa refused based on market research and email communications

Post by CR001 » Wed May 09, 2018 8:21 pm

JR is not a process under the Immigration rules. You will be an overstayer and will not be able to work at all and if you lose JR, you pay HO's costs. It also takes long and is very expensive.

Solicitors will always say JR because it is expensive and they make lots of money out of it.

If you have the option of AR within 14 days of refusal, you should do it as you will be protected under Section 3C of the immigration rules, which does not apply to JR.
Char (CR001 not Casa)
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Please DO NOT send me a PM for immigration advice. I reserve the right to ignore the PM and not respond.

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Re: Visa refused based on market research and email communications

Post by marcnath » Wed May 09, 2018 8:48 pm

Saibabashir123 wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 7:57 pm
Hi Marcnath
Thanks for your replies
Need some help
The solicitors are suggesting that this can be overturned in the Judicial review
So is it worth going for JR
What are the things that happen during JR
If JR is refused can I go back to home country and come on 200k route?
After JR do I need to have a one year cooling of period
As Char pointed out, Solicitors like JR - it is good business for them. Wonder if they would be willing to do this on a no win, no fee basis ?
Having said that, refusals based on genuineness test seems to have increased recently. And many of the rejections do not seem to fit the objective. So, I think someone should challenge it in court and have that tested. Question is who is going to be willing to take the risk and the cost associated with it.
If your AR is refused and you go for JR, you will be doing so as overstayer. And if you are not successful, then you will fall for a general refusal for at least 12 months because of your overstay. So you will not be able to go back and come in again immediately
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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Re: Visa refused based on market research and email communications

Post by Saibabashir123 » Wed May 09, 2018 9:18 pm

Thank you so much for your response Marcnath

This really makes sense, have you seen any cases of genuineness that has won in the court?
How does JR goes? How much do we need to pay the HO if we don’t win in JR?
Do we have our bank accounts frozen during the process of JR?

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Re: Visa refused based on market research and email communications

Post by Saibabashir123 » Wed May 09, 2018 10:05 pm

Hi Marcnath
Could you please let me know one thing on priority
We received our refusal letter dated on 30April
And the postal delivery was scheduled for 3rd May, but we missed the post on 3rd May
So we collected the post on 4th May with the signed delivery
So whats the exact last date for the submission of the Admin review?
Do we need to calculate from 30th april?

Thanks so much for your time

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Re: Visa refused based on market research and email communications

Post by marcnath » Wed May 09, 2018 11:19 pm

Saibabashir123 wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 9:18 pm
Thank you so much for your response Marcnath

This really makes sense, have you seen any cases of genuineness that has won in the court?
How does JR goes? How much do we need to pay the HO if we don’t win in JR?
Do we have our bank accounts frozen during the process of JR?
Almost all the genuineness refusals have been overturned in AR so none have gone to court on this forum.
JR is a challenge of the application of the law so in this case it would be arguing what genuineness means and how it should be assessed, for example. It can then be sent back to HO to review your application under the courts guidelines if you win. If you lose you may be liable to pay HO’s legal costs. So it is not a fixed cost.
Whether bank account is frozen depends on your bank, what their process of verification is.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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Re: Visa refused based on market research and email communications

Post by marcnath » Wed May 09, 2018 11:21 pm

Saibabashir123 wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 10:05 pm
Hi Marcnath
Could you please let me know one thing on priority
We received our refusal letter dated on 30April
And the postal delivery was scheduled for 3rd May, but we missed the post on 3rd May
So we collected the post on 4th May with the signed delivery
So whats the exact last date for the submission of the Admin review?
Do we need to calculate from 30th april?

Thanks so much for your time
What does it say in the letter? If it says 14 days from letter receipt then it is 14 days from 4th
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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Re: Visa refused based on market research and email communications

Post by Saibabashir123 » Thu May 10, 2018 6:14 am

Thanks much for your response Marcnath
The letter says
You have 14days calendar days after the date on which you received this decision to apply for admin review

Does this means the received date I.e 14days from 4th May?

Please confirm I don’t want to be a defaulter

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