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Fiancee Visa refused

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Marriage | Unmarried Partners | Fiancé | Ancestry

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BigglezUK
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Fiancee Visa refused

Post by BigglezUK » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:09 pm

Hello everyone,

To start, this is my first time here and after reading through several topics that I thought may help me get the advice and guidance that I needed I figured this was the right place to ask. With all things this complicated though, all advice that I've seen has mainly been aimed at the specifics of the poster.
So, I can appreciate that you guys see this all the time, but any help or guidance that can be offered would be greatly appreciated... I can't tell you how much i'm struggling right now as I don't understand so much of it and don't have the money to enlist the support of an Immigration lawyer. Especially with the fact we have been stung in the past by the xxxxxxxx, I'm very wary of paying more money that we struggle to scrape together.
So, my Fiancee Elyse received the following refusal letter in the post last week.
REASONS FOR REFUSAL ROA
On 11 December 2018 you made an application for entry clearance to the UK under Appendix
FM to the Immigration Rules on the basis of your family life with your partner xxxxxxx***********.
Your application has been considered under those Rules, and with reference to Article 8 of the
European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR). The relevant Immigration Rules can be viewed
on gov.uk here: www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration-rules.
This decision takes into account as a primary consideration the best interests of any relevant
child in line with section 55 of the Borders, Citizenship and Immigration Act 2009.
We have considered your application under paragraph EC-P.1.1. of Appendix FM. However, you
do not qualify for entry clearance under the 5-year partner route for the following reasons:
Suitability
Your application does not fall for refusal on grounds of suitability under Section S-EC of Appendix
FM.
Eligibility
Under paragraph EC-P.1.1.(d) you do not meet all of the eligibility requirements of Section E-ECP
of Appendix FM for the following reasons:
Eligibility Relationship Requirement
You do not meet the eligibility relationship requirement of paragraphs E-ECP.2.1. to 2.10.
because:
You state that you plan to marry your sponsor in the United Kingdom. However, you have
provided no evidence to suggest that a wedding is planned, or even that preliminary
arrangements have been made. Consequently, I am not satisfied that you are seeking entry to
the UK to enable your marriage to take place. I therefore refuse your application under paragraph
EC-P.1.1(d) of Appendix FM of the Immigration Rules. (E-ECP.2.8)
Eligibility Financial Requirement
You do not meet the eligibility financial requirement of paragraphs E-ECP.3.1. to 3.4. because:
You have stated in your Visa Application Form that you meet the financial requirement through
Category A. I am not able to take into account any potential employment you have available to
you in the UK or any offers of financial support from third parties. In order to meet the financial
requirements of Appendix FM your sponsor needs a gross income of at least £18,600 per annum.
You state that your sponsor has been employed by ****** Ltd since January 2018 and earns an
annual salary of £24,000.00.
The Immigration Rules state that in respect of salaried employment in the UK, all of the following
evidence must be provided

(http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... /appendix-
fmse/):

Appendix FM Partner Refusal Version 01 17
(a) Payslips covering: (i) a period of 6 months prior to the date of application if the person has
been employed by their current employer for at least 6 months (and where paragraph 13(b) of
this Appendix does not apply); or (ii) any period of salaried employment in the period of 12
months prior to the date of application if the person has been employed by their current employer
for less than 6 months (or at least 6 months but the person does not rely on paragraph 13(a) of
this Appendix), or in the financial year(s) relied upon by a self-employed person.
(b) A letter from the employer(s) who issued the payslips at paragraph 2(a) confirming:
(i) the person's employment and gross annual salary; (ii) the length of their employment; (iii) the
period over which they have been or were paid the level of salary relied upon in the application;
and (iv) the type of employment (permanent, fixed-term contract or agency).
(c) Personal bank statements corresponding to the same period(s) as the payslips at paragraph
2(a), showing that the salary has been paid into an account in the name of the person or in the
name of the person and their partner jointly.
You have not submitted the required documents as listed above. Although you have provided
your sponsor’s payslips, you have not submitted a letter from his employer or his bank
statements. These documents are specified in the Immigration Rules in Appendix FM-SE and
must be provided. You have therefore failed to provide the required documents relating to your
sponsor’s employment. I therefore refuse your application under paragraph EC-P.1.1(d) of
Appendix FM of the Immigration Rules. (E-ECP.3.1)
Eligibility English Language Requirement
You meet the eligibility English language requirement of paragraphs E-ECP.4.1. to 4.2.
Exceptional Circumstances
We have considered, under paragraphs GEN.3.1. and GEN.3.2. of Appendix FM as applicable,
whether there are exceptional circumstances in your case which could or would render refusal a
breach of Article 8 of the ECHR because it could or would result in unjustifiably harsh
consequences for you or your family. In so doing we have taken into account, under paragraph
GEN.3.3. of Appendix FM, the best interests of any relevant child as a primary consideration.
You have provided no information or evidence to establish that there are any exceptional
circumstances in your case.
Refusal under the Partner Rules
In light of the above, your application is refused under paragraph D-ECP.1.3.of Appendix FM with
reference to paragraph EC-P.1.1.(d) and you do not qualify for entry clearance on the 5-year
partner route, or on the 10-year partner route on the basis of exceptional circumstances, under
Appendix FM.
NEXT STEPS ROA
RIGHT OF APPEAL
You have 28 days from the date you receive this decision to appeal. Information on how to
appeal, the appeal process and the fees payable are all available online at:
https://www.gov.uk/immigration-asylum-t ... ide-the-uk

Appendix FM Partner Refusal Version 01 17
If you want to seek legal advice you must do so now.
IMMIGRATION HEALTH SURCHARGE
If you have paid the Immigration Health Surcharge it will be refunded. You may need to pay again
if any appeal is successful.

Now, we understand the mistake we have made with regards to proving my ability to financially support us. We missed 2 key documents. 1 being the letter from my employer and 2 being the copies of my bank statements. We had a checklist to go through before submitting everything and thought that we had provided everything, but we missed those out I guess. We were under the impression that if you were missing any documents, then the HO would say "You're missing this, we can't proceed without it" instead of refusing the entire application!
The part that puzzles me is that it says we have to appeal on the basis of a Human Rights appeal. I'm not quite sure how this applies as this is an issue with my financial viability and my foolish mistake of missing out documents. Also that the appeal may take between 8 and 18 months right now is scary. I've read we need legal representation and everything. I just don't know what this all means.

Another section of this talks about our intent to marry and that we haven't had any plans made.
I already have a deposit paid at the registry office for the ceremony and that we included the payment receipt and confirmation email in the paperwork pack. However, I will be going to the registry office to obtain an official receipt giving more detail.
We will also be getting letters from friends, family and also the church vicar to state that we have been planning to marry for a long time, with the intention of a registry office marriage and then a renewal of vows at the church when xxxxxxx family can afford to come over.
I also mentioned in my cover letter that we had a blessing ceremony at our church whilst xxxxxxxx was last here, so married in the eyes of God but not recognised by the state (I understand that's not everyone's view, but it is ours).
If there's anything more I could include in this then I'm open to suggestions please :)


Everything seems to be just about money... and that's exactly what we don't have right now :cry:
We've saved hard to pay the application fee and now after reading around
To be apart that long is going to kill us, but I guess there are many here that have been through or currently going through this right now and my heart really goes out to you. We are all Human, to keep us from the ones we love over such trivial issues is simply unjust.

To top all this off, an immigration official at the airport when interviewing xxxxxxx last time she was here said that she wouldn't let her back into the country again and that she would need a visa. Is this true?
She was here for 6 months and went straight home to the US after that. I thought that she was allowed 6 months a year here on just her passport alone? Baffled. Can anyone shed light on this? As it may be that she looks to come over again for 6 months whilst I save up in the background and then when she goes back we reapply? We are dreading the prospect of being apart for a year and a half more... the last time I saw her was last July :(

Anyway, I think that pretty much covers it. Apologies if I come across as whiny... I'm heartbroken right now and need some help. My head is a mess right now and any info that anyone can provide would be great. Give it to us straight... It may hurt but right now I don't know what's up or down and I just need something to help me make sense of where to go with this.


Thank you.

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CR001
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Re: Fiancee Visa refused

Post by CR001 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:39 pm

Sorry to hear about your refusal.

However, bank statements and employer letter of the sponsor are mandatory documents as specified in the immigration rules and Appendix FM 1.7, link below.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... _Final.pdf

The official HO website also states the required documents. I am not sure how these were missed off what was submitted.

https://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa/proof-income

The paper form Appendix 2, which you would have been required to complete, makes references to the specified evidence depending on the category you apply under.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... -08-18.pdf

On the issue of your fiance visiting, having stayed for 6 months the last time, an attempt to enter the UK now as visitor will likely be refused as she has a refused settlement fiance visa and also she stayed so long previously and therefore it indicates her ties the UK are stronger than her ties to the US.
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BigglezUK
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Re: Fiancee Visa refused

Post by BigglezUK » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:50 pm

Thanks CR. I understand all of that clearly now.
As for the grounds of an appeal, would it be worth it? Or should we just start a new application?
I'm not sure of the purpose of the appeal as it was our mistake to miss those documents out.

BigglezUK
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Re: Fiancee Visa refused

Post by BigglezUK » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:56 pm

Also, could she apply for a tourism visa for her to stay for a few months?
Would that be the official route? Could she still be turned away at the airport in the UK for having their concerns even if she was up front and straight about it?

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Re: Fiancee Visa refused

Post by CR001 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:06 pm

BigglezUK wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:50 pm
Thanks CR. I understand all of that clearly now.
As for the grounds of an appeal, would it be worth it? Or should we just start a new application?
I'm not sure of the purpose of the appeal as it was our mistake to miss those documents out.
An appeal can take many months, sometimes up to a year. It is quicker to reapply and address each point of the refusal accordingly.
Char (CR001 not Casa)
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Re: Fiancee Visa refused

Post by CR001 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:08 pm

BigglezUK wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:56 pm
Also, could she apply for a tourism visa for her to stay for a few months?
Would that be the official route? Could she still be turned away at the airport in the UK for having their concerns even if she was up front and straight about it?
Unlikely she will get one or entry to the UK now due to the refusal of the fiance settlement visa. HO might well take the view that she is trying to circumvent the immigration rules and trust me when I say, there are many US partners who have tried this and then are surprised when things go wrong within the UK or on arrival and the sorrowful story is posted for help on the forum.
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Casa
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Re: Fiancee Visa refused

Post by Casa » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:12 pm

As CR001 has already advised, she is unlikely to be permitted entry into the UK due to the failed fiancee visa application.

In my honest opinion, it would be advisable to re-apply with all the required documents, as the refusal was correct and an appeal can take 12 months or more, with a very slim to zero chance of success. :idea:
(Casa, not CR001)
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Re: Fiancee Visa refused

Post by BigglezUK » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:19 pm

With all of this in mind, we aren't going to look at her coming over for a visit and we are going to reapply but this time triple check everything. Maybe even post our list on here for people to whack me over the head when I miss something!

CR, You have been so incredibly helpful. After seeing some of your responses to people on this forum you are absolutely invaluable.
From the bottom of my heart, thank you.

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Re: Fiancee Visa refused

Post by CR001 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:27 pm

BigglezUK wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:19 pm
With all of this in mind, we aren't going to look at her coming over for a visit and we are going to reapply but this time triple check everything. Maybe even post our list on here for people to whack me over the head when I miss something!

CR, You have been so incredibly helpful. After seeing some of your responses to people on this forum you are absolutely invaluable.
From the bottom of my heart, thank you.
You are welcome and please feel free to continue asking any questions you have in this topic and we will help you with the process and at the bargain price of 'free of charge' and a 'whack on the head' as and when/if required!! :wink:
Char (CR001 not Casa)
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Please DO NOT send me a PM for immigration advice. I reserve the right to ignore the PM and not respond.

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Re: Fiancee Visa refused

Post by BigglezUK » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:32 pm

Thank you also Casa.... only saw your response after i posted my last!
It's nice to have that second opinion.
And I think the Whack on the Head is the fee... I'll even drive to you with an inflatable hammer!
... And buy you a drink afterwards :D

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Re: Fiancee Visa refused

Post by CR001 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:40 pm

BigglezUK wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:32 pm
And I think the Whack on the Head is the fee... I'll even drive to you with an inflatable hammer!
... And buy you a drink afterwards :D
Oh believe me, both Casa and I (being the only female moderators) have an arsenal of inflatable hammers to use for 'whacking on the head' :wink:

Neither of us really drink though, Casa is a teetotal and I am a coffee pot!! :lol:
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Re: Fiancee Visa refused

Post by Casa » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:04 pm

In your next application, it would strengthen the evidence of preparation for your wedding if you include quotes from venues/caterers, invitations etc. :idea:
(Casa, not CR001)
Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

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Re: Fiancee Visa refused

Post by BigglezUK » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:12 pm

Wonderful idea. Thank you :)

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Re: Fiancee Visa refused

Post by physicskate » Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:55 am

I'd also suggest you double check your relationship and accommodation evidence. Just because it's not mentioned in the refusal letter, doesn't mean it was acceptable. As you were missing so much evidence, it's entirely possible they just picked up two points when there could have been more.

Letters from friends cannot be considered. Receipts for dresses, quotes from caterers, communication with a vicar etc... can be considered as intent to marry.

It's a well-worn path for Americans to come and 'visit' and then overstay. I think it's because Americans (and some other nationalities) are so used to being able to travel to large parts of the world without applying for a visa that some take the view that immigration rules don't apply to them (I am NOT saying this about you or your fiance). So this means additional scrutiny for travellers fitting that profile.

6 months' entry is up to the discretion of the ECO at the airport (if you didn't apply for a visit visa in advance). So they don't have to let anyone in at all, but CAN allow entry up to 6 months if they don't suspect any risks of breach from that person. Also think of it this way: a visit visa is for tourism. How many people can take a month hiatus on their job, keep paying bills, rent, etc... while holidaying for 6 months?

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Re: Fiancee Visa refused

Post by BigglezUK » Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:53 pm

All excellent points, thank you :)
The relationship evidence is huge. We've been best friends for 8 years so far so we have emails, conversations, photos, even our first contact from back in 2010 :)
By accomodation evidence do you mean proof that I can provide housing for both of us? ie that my tenancy agreement states it's a three bed house and not a bedsit?

Thanks,

Will

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Re: Fiancee Visa refused

Post by physicskate » Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:19 pm

BigglezUK wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:53 pm

By accomodation evidence do you mean proof that I can provide housing for both of us? ie that my tenancy agreement states it's a three bed house and not a bedsit?

Thanks,

Will
You need to provide the tenancy agreement, but also a letter from your landlord giving her permission to live there once she has her visa.

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Re: Fiancee Visa refused

Post by BigglezUK » Sun May 12, 2019 5:39 pm

Hi All :)

So, here we go with the list of docs we have so far.
Would you mind please reading through and highlighting any you think we have missed?

Thanks!

Will

-UK Fiancée Visa Application
-Biometrics
-Fiancée’s Letter of intent
-Finance’s passport copy
-Finance’s Birth Certificate (copy)
-Fiancée’s Birth Certificate (copy)
-Fiancée’s Divorce Decree (copy)
-Proof of Relationship – Cover letter from Fiancé, WhatsApp conversations, Pictures together, Skype -
conversations
-Proof of Accommodation - Lease Agreement, Electric and Gas bill, Letter from Landlord
-Appendix 2 Financial Requirement Form
-Fiancé’s Pay slips (one year worth, despite only requiring 6 months)
-Fiancé’s Bank Statements (matching pay slips)
-Wedding Plans – Quotes for cake, DJ, and invitations, Receipt of booking at Registry Office.
-Sponsorship Form with Council Tax Notice
-Letter from Employer
-Proof of employment
-Letter from Fiancée’s parents
-Letter from Fiancé’s parents[/list]

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Re: Fiancee Visa refused

Post by ALKB » Mon May 13, 2019 9:20 am

BigglezUK wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 5:39 pm
Hi All :)

So, here we go with the list of docs we have so far.
Would you mind please reading through and highlighting any you think we have missed?

Thanks!

Will

-UK Fiancée Visa Application
-Biometrics
-Fiancée’s Letter of intent
-Finance’s passport copy
-Finance’s Birth Certificate (copy)
-Fiancée’s Birth Certificate (copy)
-Fiancée’s Divorce Decree (copy)
-Proof of Relationship – Cover letter from Fiancé, WhatsApp conversations, Pictures together, Skype -
conversations
-Proof of Accommodation - Lease Agreement, Electric and Gas bill, Letter from Landlord
-Appendix 2 Financial Requirement Form
-Fiancé’s Pay slips (one year worth, despite only requiring 6 months)
-Fiancé’s Bank Statements (matching pay slips)
-Wedding Plans – Quotes for cake, DJ, and invitations, Receipt of booking at Registry Office.
-Sponsorship Form with Council Tax Notice
-Letter from Employer
-Proof of employment
-Letter from Fiancée’s parents
-Letter from Fiancé’s parents[/list]
I know this is coming quite late, but have you considered at all to get legally married in the US? You don't need a visa for that and your spouse could then directly apply for the spouse visa and have the right to work and use the NHS when she arrives. You could then have a blessing/reception in the UK. Flights back and forth for you may be cheaper than the fiancée visa application.

Also, are you sure you are not already legally married? Churches in the US usually can conduct legal marriages. Might be worth checking because that could save you a lot of money.
I am not a regulated immigration advisor. I am offering an opinion and not advice.

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Re: Fiancee Visa refused

Post by ALKB » Mon May 13, 2019 9:32 am

ALKB wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 9:20 am
BigglezUK wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 5:39 pm
Hi All :)

So, here we go with the list of docs we have so far.
Would you mind please reading through and highlighting any you think we have missed?

Thanks!

Will

-UK Fiancée Visa Application
-Biometrics
-Fiancée’s Letter of intent
-Finance’s passport copy
-Finance’s Birth Certificate (copy)
-Fiancée’s Birth Certificate (copy)
-Fiancée’s Divorce Decree (copy)
-Proof of Relationship – Cover letter from Fiancé, WhatsApp conversations, Pictures together, Skype -
conversations
-Proof of Accommodation - Lease Agreement, Electric and Gas bill, Letter from Landlord
-Appendix 2 Financial Requirement Form
-Fiancé’s Pay slips (one year worth, despite only requiring 6 months)
-Fiancé’s Bank Statements (matching pay slips)
-Wedding Plans – Quotes for cake, DJ, and invitations, Receipt of booking at Registry Office.
-Sponsorship Form with Council Tax Notice
-Letter from Employer
-Proof of employment
-Letter from Fiancée’s parents
-Letter from Fiancé’s parents[/list]
I know this is coming quite late, but have you considered at all to get legally married in the US? You don't need a visa for that and your spouse could then directly apply for the spouse visa and have the right to work and use the NHS when she arrives. You could then have a blessing/reception in the UK. Flights back and forth for you may be cheaper than the fiancée visa application.

Also, are you sure you are not already legally married? Churches in the US usually can conduct legal marriages. Might be worth checking because that could save you a lot of money.
Sorry! I misread your post as you having had a blessing when you were last in the US.
I am not a regulated immigration advisor. I am offering an opinion and not advice.

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Re: Fiancee Visa refused

Post by BigglezUK » Mon May 13, 2019 4:35 pm

Unfortunately due to my current circumstances, me heading over to the US isn't possible right now and won't be for a while.
Thank you for the idea though.

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