Showing funds for tier 2 visa and travel history question

[FrMatthewHomes]

Hello all,

I am new to the forum. I spent quite a bit of time looking around the forum and also reading all the documentation from the U.K.governement website.

There were a couple of questions I couldn’t find the answers to, so I was wondering if someone could help me. Forgive me if this has been answered somewhere else, I just simply couldn’t find it.

We are going on a Tier 2 minister of religion visa

1. Is there a minimum hours needed to get approved for a tier 2 minister of religion visa? I saw that for a tier 2 general visa its 30 hours, but is it the same as with the minister of religion?

2. Is there a minimum salary needed for approval? Best I could find it would be minimum wage, but I’m not 100% sure on that

3. Do dependants also need their own CoS, or will my employer just issue one CoS and that will work for all of us (my wife and 5 children)

4. If while in the U.K., any children are born, I assume they need to be included when/if we renew the visa? And when/if we get to the stage of ILR, would those same children born in the U.K. need to have ILR before naturalisation or would they be able to immediately go that that status?

5. I visited the U.K. last year for about 5 weeks total. Coming from the United States I didn’t need a visitor visa. When I was leaving the lady who was checking our tickets right before getting on the plane stopped me and asked a few questions like “how long were you in the UK, what did you do here, etc”, the sort of things a border agent might ask when first arriving. I thought that was strange and had never experienced that in my previous visits. Anything to worry about this or does anyone know why she might have been asking those questions?

6. Any other things we should aware about or any potential pitfalls? We are trying to follow everything by the book, but since it’s such a large amount of money that we are putting up, I really wouldn’t want our application to get refused over something small.

Thank you very much for any help!

[CR001]

1. Anything less than 30 hours is considered part time work, which cannot be sponsored tier 2.

2. Page 39 in the guidance notes. https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... r-2-worker

3. No they don't. Only YOU need a cos. Your dependents are dependent on YOU not your sponsor.

4. UK born children Do NOT require ILR to be able to register as British. They have entitled to register. Note only adults are naturalised.

5. Irrelevant.

6. Follow the guidance and the ukvi site.

[FrMatthewHomes]

Thank you very much! That is very helpful.

Just to clarify, so children born in the U.K. do not need ILR, if/when we get to that stage we could apply for them to register as citizens after we get our ILR approved? Since the first visa is for 3 years, if we happen to have a child in that first 3 years, would we need to include them when/if we renew for the next 2 years?

[CR001]

so children born in the U.K. do not need ILR, if/when we get to that stage we could apply for them to register as citizens after we get our ILR approved?

Correct yes.

Since the first visa is for 3 years, if we happen to have a child in that first 3 years, would we need to include them when/if we renew for the next 2 years?

Probably otherwise they have to pay for any NHS service at 150% cost and ukvi will question why the child has not been included in an extension application.

[JB007]

Since the first visa is for 3 years, if we happen to have a child in that first 3 years, would we need to include them when/if we renew for the next 2 years?

One very important point is your healthcare bills for that child. Your child born in the UK, will only be covered for free use of the NHS for their first 3 months and only if they don't leave the UK during that 3 months.

"You should apply for a visa for your child during the 3-month period after your child's birth.

...

If required, you may have to pay the surcharge for your child. Failure to do so means you may be charged for NHS services provided for your child after the 3-month period."
https://www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/nhs-se ... -area-eea/

The only way to be able to pay the Immigration Health Surcahrge for that child, for free use of the NHS, is for you to have a dependant visa for them. Otherwise you will have to pay the NHS at point of use, which is an extra 50% added to the bill if you don't have insurance to cover the bill.

So although you don't need a visa for your child born in the UK until you extend your visa (unless they leave the UK) you will need have health insurance for them.

Most people find it cheaper to apply for a depandant visa as soon as their bay is born, to be able to pay the Immigration Health Surchage.



The NHS is not free to use, but there are a few limited services that the UK gives free to everyone - the expensive stuff is charged.

This explains what is a free service at the moment. Note there are 4 NHS, one for each nation in the UK.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/nhs-entitle ... alth-guide

[JB007]

The NHS is not free to use,

What I should have said was, although the NHS is free at point of use, it is not free for everyone.

[FrMatthewHomes]

Thank you all very much for your responses, this is very helpful!

I had another question come to mind. I know based on the visa terms, I can hold a second job up to 20 hours a week if it’s the same job title or a job on the needs list, likewise my wife is allowed to work anywhere and as many hours as she wishes.

My question is, does the UKVI look at taking a permitted second job or if a dependant works as negative when you go to renew/extend the visa? Will they scrutinise that aspect when looking at your application?

[CR001]

My question is, does the UKVI look at taking a permitted second job or if a dependant works as negative when you go to renew/extend the visa?

No. As long as your second job is at the same level and SOC as your main job, PAYE with the second employer and not done within the contracted hours of your main job (annual leave from main job is also your contractual main job time) and no more than 20 hours per week, then fine. Your dependent can do any work except for the restrictions printed on the visa, ie no Dr or dentist in training or a sportsperson.

Will they scrutinise that aspect when looking at your application?

They look at everything when you make an application to UKVI, HMRC records included. Any breach of your visa conditions can result in refusals.

[FrMatthewHomes]

Again, I’m very grateful for all the helpful answers here. I’m just trying to get a bearing on all the different aspects to make sure I understand.

Sorry for so many questions, but just to clarify,
If I were to take a second Job that was at the same level as the main job or something on the needs list, then it should be fine granted It’s 20 hours a week or less and it’s on the PAYE.

Now one thing you mentioned that I didn’t know about is the contracted hours. Other than the CoS stating how many hours a week you will work, does the CoS also specify what hours specifically you will work (ie mon- fri 8-5)?

Since for a Minister of Religion, it’s not really consistent what sort of hours I’ll be needed, other than Saturdays and Sundays for sure. The weekdays may vary on hours or days off, if you will.

And I assume the Church (my sponsor) will have to report which hours I do end up working per week?

[CR001]

If I were to take a second Job that was at the same level as the main job or something on the needs list, then it should be fine granted It’s 20 hours a week or less and it’s on the PAYE.

Yes. It needs to be the same SOC level and same job as you do in your main tier 2 sponsored job and must be a PAYE job, not self employment.

Now one thing you mentioned that I didn’t know about is the contracted hours. Other than the CoS stating how many hours a week you will work, does the CoS also specify what hours specifically you will work (ie mon- fri 8-5)?

No it does not. That level of detail will be contained in your employment contract. Your CoS will merely state the weekly cumulative hours you will work, ie. 39 hours which is what the salaries in the SOC list is based on.

Since for a Minister of Religion, it’s not really consistent what sort of hours I’ll be needed, other than Saturdays and Sundays for sure. The weekdays may vary on hours or days off, if you will.

As far as I am aware, there are other duties as a Minister of Religion so it will depend on what your contract says.

And I assume the Church (my sponsor) will have to report which hours I do end up working per week?

Your employer will know what their obligations are and the salary payments in the UK are done using RTI, real time processing, with HMRC, which UKVI have direct access to.

[FrMatthewHomes]

Again thank you very much, I think I understand now.

One last question, so the full details of My job will be provided on a job contract (a new concept for me as an American never having a work contract before), is this provided during the application for the Visa, or at some other point?

Then based on what you said, I assume When you go to renew/extend the visa, they check that you did work the hours or within the terms of your contract during your first stay, probably also looking at pay statements to make sure everything matches up. Is that a fair assessment? And if you did take a second job, I’m assuming they would further evaluate your main job contract and the other job contract to make sure there are no discrepancies and to make sure hours worked did not overlap?

[CR001]

One last question, so the full details of My job will be provided on a job contract (a new concept for me as an American never having a work contract before), is this provided during the application for the Visa, or at some other point?

That is an issue you need to discuss with your employer/sponsor on when it will be provided to you as you need to sign acceptance of the conditions of the contract. An employment contract is not required for the visa application as far as I am aware.

Then based on what you said, I assume When you go to renew/extend the visa, they check that you did work the hours or within the terms of your contract during your first stay, probably also looking at pay statements to make sure everything matches up. Is that a fair assessment?

Correct and that your salary is at the appropriate rate too.

And if you did take a second job, I’m assuming they would further evaluate your main job contract and the other job contract to make sure there are no discrepancies and to make sure hours worked did not overlap?

Your second job is irrelevant to a visa extension. It is up to you to ensure you comply with the conditions of your visa. If you breach your visa conditions, it is very easy for UKVI to find out from the payroll information held by HMRC. A breach of visa conditions can result in future extension or ILR and citizenship being refused or your existing visa being curtailed/cancelled.

[FrMatthewHomes]

Thank you again for your detailed and quick responses.

I think I understand everything, very grateful for the help.

Definitely wanting to follow all the rules and conditions of the visa and I just wanted to make sure that I understand them. Thank you again!

[CR001]

You're welcome. Feel free to ask any further questions that you might have.

[FrMatthewHomes]

Actually, I’m sorry, I was just re reading some of the answers and I had one more question.

You mentioned that you don’t think a work contract is necessary for a visa. Is that something purely option or is it required at one point? If you didn’t have it, or say didn’t provide that in the application, then how would UKVI check to make sure you are working within your set hours? Is the UKVI that your weekly hours and days worked are flexible or do they insist that it’s al pre set and you stick to a single schedule?

[CR001]

You mentioned that you don’t think a work contract is necessary for a visa. Is that something purely option or is it required at one point?

It is not required for the visa application process.

https://www.gov.uk/tier-2-minister-of-r ... st-provide

If you didn’t have it, or say didn’t provide that in the application, then how would UKVI check to make sure you are working within your set hours?

It is mandatory for employers in the UK to provide employment contracts detailing the employment specifics and terms and conditions. UKVI is able to check your history with HMRC and have a right to query anything with your sponsor and ask for records.

Is the UKVI that your weekly hours and days worked are flexible or do they insist that it’s al pre set and you stick to a single schedule?

You need to work and earn at the required level as indicated in the immigration rules and relevant Appendix. The week is Monday to Sunday, how you work or which days your contracts states you work is irrelevant as long as your salary and hours work are in line with the rules.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration ... sed-system

[FrMatthewHomes]

Amazing, that is all much more clear now. Thanks a ton.

I just wanted to make sure I understood the rules and was following everything correctly. Definitely don’t want to jeopardise our chances of staying longer.

As a sort of side questions to that. How “tough” is the UKVI? When you go to apply for your first visa, assuming you have a correct Cos, and everything looks fine, how much discretion do they use when approving/rejecting applications? Is it a matter as long as you meet all the requirements it’s going to be approved or is it not so straight forward?

When you go to renew/extend, again is it similar as long as the paperwork is in order and you haven’t broken any rules, are they going to approve it or is there more discretion on that?


I would just hate to make a small mistake and ruin our chances (again we will make sure to follow all the rules, but I’m worried about accidentally breaking some rule I was unaware about)


Thank you in advance!

[CR001]

How “tough” is the UKVI? When you go to apply for your first visa, assuming you have a correct Cos, and everything looks fine, how much discretion do they use when approving/rejecting applications? Is it a matter as long as you meet all the requirements it’s going to be approved or is it not so straight forward?

There is no discretion. They strictly follow the rules. You either meet them or you don't.

When you go to renew/extend, again is it similar as long as the paperwork is in order and you haven’t broken any rules, are they going to approve it or is there more discretion on that?

Same as my response above. You are required to meet the rules and requirements. If you don't you are refused. There is no discretion.

[FrMatthewHomes]

That’s good to know, thank you very much!

You have been very helpful, and I greatly appreciate that!

[CR001]

You're welcome, anytime, happy to answer if I can.

[JB007]

With all those children, one other thing you might not know is that the UK does not allow parents to use their children to reduce their tax bill. I think the US call that Child Tax Credits?

The UK has (did have) a Child Tax Credits, but that is (was) a welfare payment and is nothing to do with taxes.

[FrMatthewHomes]

Hello again,

Thank you all who have helped me thus far. I figured to start a new thread since this question was a bit different to my last questions. If the Admins prefer I put this in my other thread please let me know and I can take this one down.

So, we have determined that the appropriate SOC code we will use is 2444. Best I can find on the appendixes is that the minimum salary needed is minimum wage, however I cannot find what is considered “appropriate salary” but can only find references to at least minimum wage. Does anyone know where to find a list of appropriate salaries or what the appropriate salary is considered for SOC 2444?

Also I have read that the appropriate salary is based on 39 hours per week. If the CoS is for, say, 32 hours per week, would you still need to make the appropriate salary of 39 hours per week?

And if it is minimum wage in my case, would we then need to make £8.72 x 39 = £340.09 Per week?


Last question as of now is about maintenance funds. If my sponsor specified that they will cover maintenance, then when we submit our documents to apply for the visa, I assume that UKVI will only look to make sure we have enough money for the IHS and for entry clearance, and that we did actually pay?

Thank you all in advance!

[CR001]

I have merged your topics.

[CR001]

So, we have determined that the appropriate SOC code we will use is 2444. Best I can find on the appendixes is that the minimum salary needed is minimum wage, however I cannot find what is considered “appropriate salary” but can only find references to at least minimum wage. Does anyone know where to find a list of appropriate salaries or what the appropriate salary is considered for SOC 2444?

Part 5, point 131 and 132 on page 38.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... r-2-worker

Last question as of now is about maintenance funds. If my sponsor specified that they will cover maintenance, then when we submit our documents to apply for the visa, I assume that UKVI will only look to make sure we have enough money for the IHS and for entry clearance, and that we did actually pay?

Maintenance funds is not the same as paying the IHS or visa fees. You cannot progress your application if you do not pay the fees. It doesn't matter who pays it, it is linked directly to and part of the online application process.

Thank you all in advance!
[/quote]

[FrMatthewHomes]

With all those children, one other thing you might not know is that the UK does not allow parents to use their children to reduce their tax bill. I think the US call that Child Tax Credits?

The UK has (did have) a Child Tax Credits, but that is (was) a welfare payment and is nothing to do with taxes.

Yes we are aware of that. It’s nice in the US having those tax credits, but we fully expect and are ok with paying our fair share in the U.K. of course the fees are expensive, but trade off is far worth it in our estimation.

Ironically, I looked at a tax estimator for the U.K., and we end up paying less taxes overall In the U.K. than we do in America.