Absence between 600 and 800 days: what else matters?

[TeleFeather]

Hello

I'm an EU national that has been a resident in the UK from 2005-Jul to 2011-Oct and then again from 2016-Apr until now.

Since 2017-Jul, my presence on UK soil has been very patchy due to work first and then the pandemic (I've weathered the storm elsewhere in the EEA).

I have had Settled Status since 2021-Sep, by virtue of my 2005-2011 stint in the UK.

I was done with all the things for my application by 2022-Oct (prepared references, filled in the online application, got the Life in the UK test etc), I am now waiting for the number of days of absence from UK soil to decrease before I can actually apply.

Bearing in mind that I have to submit on a date that saw me in the UK on that same day but 5 years prior, I have a first opportunity in June. By then, my days of absence in the last 5 years will be 785.

Otherwise, at the end of August, I'll have another chance and by then the days will be 711.

My questions:

1) Would 711 give me an advantage over 785?

2) Knowing that days of absence between 450 and 900 will require further consideration from the Home Office, what else should I bring to the table in terms of evidence? I don't own property, I have a limied company I use to invoice my livelihood's work in the UK, my girlfriend is English and I live at her address where I'm registered for council tax and electoral roll, I'm a trustee in a registered charity, I have a few years' ISA allowances and an MSc obtained here in the UK.

Many thanks

[CR001]

prepared references, filled in the online application,

You will need updated referees, you cannot have a signed document that was signed many months before applying. You will also need to complete the form again, it does not stay active on the system indefinitely. You have 10 weeks to complete and submit before the application is deleted.

1) Would 711 give me an advantage over 785?

No, you substantially exceed the absence limit for the 5 years by almost double the amount.

2) Knowing that days of absence between 450 and 900 will require further consideration from the Home Office, what else should I bring to the table in terms of evidence? I don't own property, I have a limied company I use to invoice my livelihood's work in the UK, my girlfriend is English and I live at her address where I'm registered for council tax and electoral roll, I'm a trustee in a registered charity, I have a few years' ISA allowances and an MSc obtained here in the UK.

What are the details of your absences, by date leaving and date returning for the qualifying period? What is your absence in the last 12 months?

All applications for citizenship are at discretion, easy when you meet the requirements, not so easy when you don't.

my 2005-2011 stint in the UK

For the purpose of citizenship, this period is irrelevant as the gap before you returned in 2016 is too great.

[TeleFeather]

Hi, thanks for taking the time.

- I understand the application will need redoing, and new referees. Not a problem. Thanks for the heads up.

- What I knew was that 450-900 is still possible
Third party weblink removed by moderator. Please do not post solicitor weblinks on the forum.

I have all the dates of my absence, they are for the vast majority due to work. I have work contracts, invoices, payments received and the like, including a letter from my vendor explaining my need to be at the premises of the final client, which at times had been abroad.
Regarding the pandemic, I was working in an EEA country that wouldn't have allowed me back for long periods of time if I had left, because I wasn't their national nor their resident. Having work to do in their country was not enough of a reason to be allowed back in for two long spells (Mar-Jul 2020, Jan-Apr 2021), which practically forced me to stay there for much longer periods in order to fulfill my contractual obilations.

If I were to apply in June, my days of absence in the last 12 months would be way less than 90 days. Same for the year before. Essentially, since I have learned about the requirement of being on UK soil (which I learned only on February 2022), I've stayed as much as I possibly could, at the cost of turning down good work projects outside of the UK (also something I have proof of).

[TeleFeather]

Sorry about the link of a solicitor!

Also, enough time has passed that by now the only big instance is that period during the pandemic (Mar 2020 to April 2021 for me). Without that, come June 2024, my days outside of UK soil would be 390. Nevermind the previous work projects, they'd be past the 5 years.

[contorted_svy]

Hello

I'm an EU national that has been a resident in the UK from 2005-Jul to 2011-Oct and then again from 2016-Apr until now.

Since 2017-Jul, my presence on UK soil has been very patchy due to work first and then the pandemic (I've weathered the storm elsewhere in the EEA).

I have had Settled Status since 2021-Sep, by virtue of my 2005-2011 stint in the UK.

I was done with all the things for my application by 2022-Oct (prepared references, filled in the online application, got the Life in the UK test etc), I am now waiting for the number of days of absence from UK soil to decrease before I can actually apply.

Bearing in mind that I have to submit on a date that saw me in the UK on that same day but 5 years prior, I have a first opportunity in June. By then, my days of absence in the last 5 years will be 785.

Otherwise, at the end of August, I'll have another chance and by then the days will be 711.

My questions:

1) Would 711 give me an advantage over 785?

2) Knowing that days of absence between 450 and 900 will require further consideration from the Home Office, what else should I bring to the table in terms of evidence? I don't own property, I have a limied company I use to invoice my livelihood's work in the UK, my girlfriend is English and I live at her address where I'm registered for council tax and electoral roll, I'm a trustee in a registered charity, I have a few years' ISA allowances and an MSc obtained here in the UK.

Many thanks

For that amount of absences you would need to show 7 years of residence in the UK, which you just about have.


Read the guidance on page 13 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... t_2023.pdf

Absences normally disregarded only if:

• you meet all other requirements and you have established your home, family and a substantial part of your estate here. 900 days
For absences exceeding 730 days we would expect you to have been resident in the UK for the last 8 years unless the absences were a result of one of the reasons given below
Please note: if your absences are up to 730 days we would expect you to have been resident in the UK for the last 7 years.

Applying now would make you automatically ineligible as you've only lived in the UK continuously (your 2011-2016 period doesn't matter) for less than 7 years.

Do you own property abroad, or other businesses? if so, that would possibly work against you as you wouldn't have established a substantial estate here. Also this option is only available to you if you respect all other requirements. How many absences have you totalled in the last 12 months?

If the other requirements are all observed and you can show that your estate, employment, businesses, tenancy, etc are here, you have a shot in August, though it would be a safer bet to wait until your absences go down and travel a bit less in the next couple years.

[contorted_svy]

Sorry about the link of a solicitor!

Also, enough time has passed that by now the only big instance is that period during the pandemic (Mar 2020 to April 2021 for me). Without that, come June 2024, my days outside of UK soil would be 390. Nevermind the previous work projects, they'd be past the 5 years.

Unfortunately that wouldn't help you. Your qualifying period if you apply now includes that time so your total does need to include those absences too.

[contorted_svy]

Hi, thanks for taking the time.

- I understand the application will need redoing, and new referees. Not a problem. Thanks for the heads up.

- What I knew was that 450-900 is still possible
Third party weblink removed by moderator. Please do not post solicitor weblinks on the forum.

I have all the dates of my absence, they are for the vast majority due to work. I have work contracts, invoices, payments received and the like, including a letter from my vendor explaining my need to be at the premises of the final client, which at times had been abroad.
Regarding the pandemic, I was working in an EEA country that wouldn't have allowed me back for long periods of time if I had left, because I wasn't their national nor their resident. Having work to do in their country was not enough of a reason to be allowed back in for two long spells (Mar-Jul 2020, Jan-Apr 2021), which practically forced me to stay there for much longer periods in order to fulfill my contractual obilations.

If I were to apply in June, my days of absence in the last 12 months would be way less than 90 days. Same for the year before. Essentially, since I have learned about the requirement of being on UK soil (which I learned only on February 2022), I've stayed as much as I possibly could, at the cost of turning down good work projects outside of the UK (also something I have proof of).

As compelling as it was at the time, it is not the HO's problem why you were abroad - you could have looked for another job or turned it down. Also it wouldn't matter to them that you turned down "good work" to comply with the requirements, naturalisation is a discretionary application and British nationality is a privilege, not a right. They set the rules (whether we like it or not) and as foreign nationals it's up to us to prove we respect the rules they set.

[TeleFeather]

Hi Contorted_Svy

thanks. I understand the rules (better) now, but the reason why I have opened the thread is to understand, as much as possible, how that discretionality works.

Now, I do remember having read the bit about "An unavoidable consequence of the nature of your work. For example, if you are a merchant seaman or someone working for a UK based business which requires frequent travel abroad" : wouldn't that apply to me?

I co-own a property abroad with my brother, but it's really our parents holiday house. I guess I could just renounce my part before applying. I haven't even had a bank account in Italy ever... I came of age in the UK, so to speak...
What exactly counts as one's estate?

Ah, my absence in the last 12 months if I apply in June would be some 35 days, the year before very similar, maybe less.

[contorted_svy]

The extracts from the rules I presented outline exactly how that discretionality works. For more detail I would suggest asking an immigration solicitor - no one except them truly knows what the HO accepts as "An unavoidable consequence of the nature of your work" except for the examples they explicitly mention in the guidance, so it is difficult for me to advise beyond what I have done. You owning property (even jointly) abroad may not work in your favour considering your high absences but again hard to know exactly what the HO considers to be "the majority's of one's estate".

[TeleFeather]

Ok thanks. The property is not where I was most of the time during the pandemic, in fact I was never there during the pandemic and my presence in the country where I have the property is quite minimal.

But thanks for all the feedback!

[contorted_svy]

It doesn't matter, the fact you own it would weaken your attachment to the UK in the HO's view.

[TeleFeather]

Is that something they ask you to declare in the application? I can't really remember, it was quite some time ago...

[contorted_svy]

If you want to apply and ask for discretion it is up to you to demonstrate your estate is here. I don't know if/how they would find out, but lying or omitting it wouldn't put my own mind at ease with it.

[TeleFeather]

I understand, thanks. It's in line with what I am doing, waiting for my days to go down. But I really want it done as soon as reasonably possible, to get it over with. It is problematic to say no to work overseas.

[contorted_svy]

I understand, but as I said it is a discretionary application, it's not compulsory to apply. maybe if you wait another year or so your absences will go down enough that it wouldn't raise too many issues. You are still allowed 90 days abroad on average every year.

If you don't want to lose your application, you can login to it every 10 weeks to keep it active, the system will save it even without submitting - that is what I did last year when I applied, I started the online application early on and kept adding details as I retrieved them, I had a calendar alert every 8 weeks to remind me to log in just in case.

[TeleFeather]

Grazie mille for all the tips. I know my days would go down if I stayed longer, but I'll talk to lawyers and see what they say.