Received SAR for travel dates, basic information missing

[JeremyG]

Hello all seeking some guidance.

Came here 11 years ago (entrepreneur route) with wife, and received ILR 6 years ago (3 local-born kids became citizens at that point). My wife applied and received her citizenship aprox 4/5 years ago.

1. Do I apply based on 5 or 3 years of travel (because my wife is already a citizen)
2. Is the 90 day rule a hard rule or is there discretion? Background (if it matters), I travel a lot but mostly short business trips, still compiling the numbers but I am easily under the 270/450 days, but in the last year one of my ventures was invited to a lucrative multi month program in Silicon Valley and I have passed the 90 days in 12 months (still calculating circa 120-140). I have no other home anywhere in the world, and would like to think I was a good entrepreneur (produced over 1000 years of quality employment), so if there is discretion, I think I can write a good explanation.

thanks for any responses

PS is there an employee "playbook" for discretion rules? I vaguely remember such existed for my extension and ILR)

[alterhase58]

Have you looked at the guidance?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... n-guidance

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... bookmark11

Any discretion is explained here.

[contorted_svy]

You would apply as spouse of a British citizen, Section 6(2).

The guidance https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... accessible states

5.2 Absences in the 12 months prior to applying
In addition to the overall number of absences, you should not have been absent for more than 90 days during the final 12 months of the qualifying period. This applies to applications both under the 5- and 3-year routes.

Absences from the UK during the last 12 months of your qualifying period will be considered in the following way:

6(1) and 6(2) applications
Normal permitted absences in final 12 months of your qualifying period 90 days
Total number of absences normally disregarded 100 days
Total number of absences normally disregarded only if all other requirements are met and
you have demonstrated links with the UK through presence of family, and established home and a substantial part of your estate. 101 – 179 days
Total number of absences that may be disregarded if you do not meet all the other requirements providing the following criteria are met:

you have demonstrated links with the UK through presence of family, and established home and a substantial part of your estate

and

the absence is justified by Crown service or by compelling occupational or compassionate reasons taking account of the criteria listed on page 10 101 – 179 days

You need to demonstrate you have established your family, estate and finances here in the UK for absences up to 179 days.

[JeremyG]

Thanks for the inputs, it seems I have a fair chance.

Questions:

1. In the online application do I put all my travel outside UK (11 years worth) or just the last 3 years?
2. It asked if my dependents are applying with me, answer is NO, but it doesn't ask why, (they already are BC...) am I missing something?

[contorted_svy]

Add only the trips during the qualifying period. No hidden catch - if no dependants are applying with you just answer NO.

[JeremyG]

Thanks for the previous replies!

For the two referees, it is OK to do it electronically so I photoshop my face shot to this form https://visas-immigration.service.gov.u ... on_MN1.pdf

And they attach their (real looking) signature and send back to me and I upload it?

I am sure this forum has defined the term "who has professional standing" any links?

PS re forum ettiquite, it is OK to post my questions here in an ongoing thread (gives context) and better not to just say thanks to every reply (even though I am grateful for this resource!)

[AmazonianX]

Thanks for the previous replies!

For the two referees, it is OK to do it electronically so I photoshop my face shot to this form https://visas-immigration.service.gov.u ... on_MN1.pdf
Photoshop in terms of electronic photo yes. Photoshop in terms of altering the photo NO.
And they attach their (real looking) signature and send back to me and I upload it? Yes

I am sure this forum has defined the term "who has professional standing" any links? Not defined by the forum, it comes on a list from HO which is not exhaustive
https://www.gov.uk/countersigning-passp ... ignatories

PS re forum ettiquite, it is OK to post my questions here in an ongoing thread (gives context) and better not to just say thanks to every reply (even though I am grateful for this resource!) This was created by you, continue therein

[JeremyG]

1. I have inserted my list of travels and I am at 30 trips and the form won't let me add more, is this standard form limit? (Can I add the rest manually in a cover letter? Is there opportunity to upload a cover letter in general to give some context, e.g. why I travel a lot?)

2. It asks for previous immigration application details incl reference numbers (If you have them). I applied outside the UK for T1-ent, then Extension, then ILR (received six years ago...), do I have to be detailed on every one (not going to be easy to dig it all out)

3. My PP is rarely stamped when I enter the UK, what additional evidence to prove I have been resident here the whole time?

Thank you!

[AmazonianX]

1. I have inserted my list of travels and I am at 30 trips and the form won't let me add more, is this standard form limit? (Can I add the rest manually in a cover letter? Is there opportunity to upload a cover letter in general to give some context, e.g. why I travel a lot?) You can create a spreadsheet, input remaining details and upload.

2. It asks for previous immigration application details incl reference numbers (If you have them). I applied outside the UK for T1-ent, then Extension, then ILR (received six years ago...), do I have to be detailed on every one (not going to be easy to dig it all out)

3. My PP is rarely stamped when I enter the UK, what additional evidence to prove I have been resident here the whole time? P60, employment document/letters, council tax bills corroborating time claimed spent in UK.

Thank you!

[razergd1]

1. I have inserted my list of travels and I am at 30 trips and the form won't let me add more, is this standard form limit? (Can I add the rest manually in a cover letter? Is there opportunity to upload a cover letter in general to give some context, e.g. why I travel a lot?)
you can attach excel. My ILR was done by a large immigration advice firm and that's what they did.

2. It asks for previous immigration application details incl reference numbers (If you have them). I applied outside the UK for T1-ent, then Extension, then ILR (received six years ago...), do I have to be detailed on every one (not going to be easy to dig it all out)

You can put BRP numbers / or vaf number from vignette it's not really critical
In my application I just added dates of validity any type but my wife's I found copies of her BRPs so she had BRP numbers.

3. My PP is rarely stamped when I enter the UK, what additional evidence to prove I have been resident here the whole time?
technically if you use non-eu passport then all the passports you used to enter and leave the UK should be sufficient. As the UKVI keeps entry/exit records of non-EU nationals. Exit records are based on API received from carriers so if you ever used a private vessel to leave the record might be missing. (Not sure what's the procedure there).
I suggest that you use this as first evidence then if you are self employed/ company director use your self assessment summary for every year covering the last 3. I think this combination will be sufficient.




Thank you!

Other things you need to add (to cover for over 90 days discretion),
Proof of ownership of your house, you will need to demonstrate that you own it. So maybe the house deed showing your ownership.
Proof that your family lives on the UK. I think for British children you may bring school letters and for spouse bring P60's self assessment as first line of evidence.

Good luck!

[razergd1]

For more information about case worker discretion please refer to,
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... bookmark18

I think you will find what you looking for around page 17 of the PDF version.

[JeremyG]

After applying, when can you travel again without messing it up?


Many thanks for the stream of kind replies

[alterhase58]

After applying, when can you travel again without messing it up?


Many thanks for the stream of kind replies

You are free to travel after submitting application, but biometrics and ceremony need to be done in the UK.
You are still an ILR holder with BRP until you are British - naturalisation isn't part of the immigration framework.

[JeremyG]

You are free to travel after submitting application, but biometrics and ceremony need to be done in the UK.
You are still an ILR holder with BRP until you are British - naturalisation isn't part of the immigration framework.

Don't you have to book an appointment with UKVAS to verify the passports (etc)

[CR001]

Ukcvas is for you to enroll biomterics and identity check. No original documents are taken and sent to ukvi.

[JeremyG]

Ukcvas is for you to enroll biomterics and identity check. No original documents are taken and sent to ukvi.

Are you supposed to scan and upload all PP pages?

[CR001]

Yes, biometric page and all stamped pages.

[JeremyG]

I am confused on answering the following questions under Residence Requirments section

a. Please tell us which of the requirements you do not meet and the reason you do not meet them:

b. Are there any reasons why you cannot meet the requirements to become a British citizen (for example, you have had too many absences from the UK)?

c. If you do not meet the statutory requirements to become a British citizen, are there any special circumstances why you think the Home Secretary should still grant your application?

a. and b. seem the same to me? (my issue is being out ~140 days in last year), what do I answer for c. (I am a resident only of the UK and traveled a bit more in last year due to ....)?

in addition, I am preparing a cover letter to cover a few issues, including additional trips beyond the 30 allowed in the form, is it OK to answer "please see cover letter" in certain places. Is there a draft cover letter on this forum (to whom I address it etc?)

Lastly how best to use the last question "Do you have any other details that you would like to be considered regarding this applicant and their application to be registered as a British Citizen?"

[alterhase58]

These are questions you don't have to answer, if there's nothing you wish to raise the "n/a" would be sufficient, or refer to your covering note. Agreed they are a bit confusing. There are no templates for covering letters as they are not required, but you are free to add one with your documents. Address "to whom it may concern", add your name, address and DOB. All documents loaded will be reviewed.

[contorted_svy]

I am confused on answering the following questions under Residence Requirments section

a. Please tell us which of the requirements you do not meet and the reason you do not meet them:

b. Are there any reasons why you cannot meet the requirements to become a British citizen (for example, you have had too many absences from the UK)?

c. If you do not meet the statutory requirements to become a British citizen, are there any special circumstances why you think the Home Secretary should still grant your application?

a. and b. seem the same to me? (my issue is being out ~140 days in last year), what do I answer for c. (I am a resident only of the UK and traveled a bit more in last year due to ....)?

in addition, I am preparing a cover letter to cover a few issues, including additional trips beyond the 30 allowed in the form, is it OK to answer "please see cover letter" in certain places. Is there a draft cover letter on this forum (to whom I address it etc?)

Lastly how best to use the last question "Do you have any other details that you would like to be considered regarding this applicant and their application to be registered as a British Citizen?"

When you answer b you need to explain why you think they should grant you discretion (because you are proving your links to the UK etc). Last question can be left with n/a. You can also say please see cover letter and explain more there.

[JeremyG]

Once you submit and pay, that is the defining date for application (e.g. absences calculation)? You can immediately travel (but have to be back for the UKCVAS appointment)? What is the time deadline to get an appointment done (28 days? or longer?)? You can continue making changes to evidence documents as long as you upload them 48 hours before the UKCVAS appointment?

Much thanks for the amazing support on this forum!

[contorted_svy]

Once you submit and pay, that is the defining date for application (e.g. absences calculation)? Yes

You can immediately travel (but have to be back for the UKCVAS appointment)? Yes

What is the time deadline to get an appointment done (28 days? or longer?)? When you submit it will give you the deadline, I believe it is 45 working days

You can continue making changes to evidence documents as long as you upload them 48 hours before the UKCVAS appointment? Yes

Much thanks for the amazing support on this forum!

[JeremyG]

As I am finishing compiling my absences (lesson to myself, should have kept a running list, but didn't), I am 141 days in the last 12 months, and a total 295 (more than I originally estimated) in 3 years.

I am very careful to be precise so still searching. My questions,

1. As I am both over 90 and 270 am I out of luck?
2. As 295< 300 "normally overlooked" is it OK because of that?
3. If I were over 300 (one more missing trip found) is that a no-discretion situation?
4. Is going for a five-year route a solution (then I need to be under 450 days.. hopefully, I am as 1st year of Covid was minimal travel... but the pain of two more years of searching.... ouch...), or since I am married to BC must go 3 year route?
5. I read that they look at your travel and try and find a better date, would they come back and say you can't have discretion via 3-year route, but you can via 5-year route?

[contorted_svy]

As I am finishing compiling my absences (lesson to myself, should have kept a running list, but didn't), I am 141 days in the last 12 months, and a total 295 (more than I originally estimated) in 3 years.

I am very careful to be precise so still searching. My questions,

1. As I am both over 90 and 270 am I out of luck? Yes. At least one must be below the threshold
2. As 295< 300 "normally overlooked" is it OK because of that? No because you exceed the 90 days in the last 12 months
3. If I were over 300 (one more missing trip found) is that a no-discretion situation? You already are not eligible for discretion based on above.
4. Is going for a five-year route a solution (then I need to be under 450 days.. hopefully, I am as 1st year of Covid was minimal travel... but the pain of two more years of searching.... ouch...), or since I am married to BC must go 3 year route? Can apply in your own right and respect the 450 days over 5 years rule.
5. I read that they look at your travel and try and find a better date, would they come back and say you can't have discretion via 3-year route, but you can via 5-year route? Yes but at that stage you are better off waiting rather than gambling on when your caseworker looks at the application.

[JeremyG]

As I am finishing compiling my absences (lesson to myself, should have kept a running list, but didn't), I am 141 days in the last 12 months, and a total 295 (more than I originally estimated) in 3 years.

I am very careful to be precise so still searching. My questions,

1. As I am both over 90 and 270 am I out of luck? Yes. At least one must be below the threshold
2. As 295< 300 "normally overlooked" is it OK because of that? No because you exceed the 90 days in the last 12 months
3. If I were over 300 (one more missing trip found) is that a no-discretion situation? You already are not eligible for discretion based on above.
4. Is going for a five-year route a solution (then I need to be under 450 days.. hopefully, I am as 1st year of Covid was minimal travel... but the pain of two more years of searching.... ouch...), or since I am married to BC must go 3 year route? Can apply in your own right and respect the 450 days over 5 years rule.
5. I read that they look at your travel and try and find a better date, would they come back and say you can't have discretion via 3-year route, but you can via 5-year route? Yes but at that stage you are better off waiting rather than gambling on when your caseworker looks at the application.

I messed up with myself (and especially recent travel planning) and now getting into complicated territory (but maybe you experts can have some fun solving this riddle). I must travel in the next few days for a long trip, so eager to get the application off. Waiting is not a good option as more travel just makes it harder. Can I "press apply and pay" on my nearly complete application (based on 3 years) and then take 2-3 weeks to compile the year 4+5 travel (I am already over the 30 trips so was covering the extra trips in the cover letter) and clarify in the cover letter that I prefer the 5-year route and believe I am allowed discretion for going over 90 under that route

OR

Adjust for 5 years, cannot claim the days absent in 5 years, 'press apply and pay' and then fix it with precision in cover letter.


(I am not willing to upload anything that I do not believe is precise to the best of my knowledge, I prefer option one above)

In short is a cover letter a cure for some aspects (I am not willing to get anywhere near deception and will declare openly, in the cover letter, what I have done here either 3/5 route)