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Work under tier 1 entrepreneur visa - urgent !!

Only for UK Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) points system. This route is now closed to new applicants.

Moderators: Casa, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, CR001, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix

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G M
Junior Member
Posts: 68
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 2:31 am
Location: London

Work under tier 1 entrepreneur visa - urgent !!

Post by G M » Sun May 26, 2013 2:44 am

hi.
I got my tier 1 Entrepreneur visa. I am an accountant by profession. I managed to secure a contract through an agency on my limited company which was set up at the time of making my entrepreneur application. I started working there and after a week the agency contacted me saying that your position is put on hold as the agency's legal team raised an issue with my visa status and they not sure if I can work as a contractor and provide such business services.

Please I will really appreciate your response and any useful links/ information to prove that I can work as a contractor and provide such business services.

Thank G

removed user

Re: Work under tier 1 entrepreneur visa - urgent !!

Post by removed user » Sun May 26, 2013 3:21 am

G M wrote:hi.
I got my tier 1 Entrepreneur visa. I am an accountant by profession. I managed to secure a contract through an agency on my limited company which was set up at the time of making my entrepreneur application. I started working there and after a week the agency contacted me saying that your position is put on hold as the agency's legal team raised an issue with my visa status and they not sure if I can work as a contractor and provide such business services.

Please I will really appreciate your response and any useful links/ information to prove that I can work as a contractor and provide such business services.

Thank G
The agency has contract with your company not with you - So how can they object your visa? They have not employed a person, they are simply taking services from a registered UK company?

G M
Junior Member
Posts: 68
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 2:31 am
Location: London

Post by G M » Sun May 26, 2013 3:28 am

hey.. many thanks for your quick reply. yes exactly. how can I prove them that this is not an issue with my visa status? Many employers and HR departments are not fully aware of the rights of work under tier1 entrepreneur status and genuine entrepreneurs are struggling to provide there services in Uk if this problem is not solved..

removed user

Post by removed user » Sun May 26, 2013 4:07 am

They can call UKBA or you can call UKBA and tell them to explain this to company.

Can you tell how you applied your visa and what docs you provided on what dates app was made and dec received?

Mr Legal
Member
Posts: 175
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:19 am
Location: Scotland

Re: Work under tier 1 entrepreneur visa - urgent !!

Post by Mr Legal » Sun May 26, 2013 8:09 am

G M wrote:hi.
I got my tier 1 Entrepreneur visa. I am an accountant by profession. I managed to secure a contract through an agency on my limited company which was set up at the time of making my entrepreneur application. I started working there and after a week the agency contacted me saying that your position is put on hold as the agency's legal team raised an issue with my visa status and they not sure if I can work as a contractor and provide such business services.

Please I will really appreciate your response and any useful links/ information to prove that I can work as a contractor and provide such business services.

Thank G
The time and need to understand the meaning of a self-employment as an entrepreneur.If that company puts you on their own payrol,you cant do this nor your visa allows you to do so.Very simple to ask their legal team that your visa allows you to give services under a contract on the basis of which that company will pay your services charges +vat.

However,I can suggest to approach the UKBA as it is a general principle that law maker can interpret correctly the intention behind the law.I think they may be able to clarify it for you or for your company.
Experience and understanding can get you to the goal.Every information based on my own experience is friendly shared in goodfaith.

KickAss
Member of Standing
Posts: 294
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:36 pm
Location: Surrey

Re: Work under tier 1 entrepreneur visa - urgent !!

Post by KickAss » Sun May 26, 2013 8:30 am

G M wrote:hi.
I got my tier 1 Entrepreneur visa. I am an accountant by profession. I managed to secure a contract through an agency on my limited company which was set up at the time of making my entrepreneur application. I started working there and after a week the agency contacted me saying that your position is put on hold as the agency's legal team raised an issue with my visa status and they not sure if I can work as a contractor and provide such business services.

Please I will really appreciate your response and any useful links/ information to prove that I can work as a contractor and provide such business services.

Thank G
Just to let you know these agents are full of bullshit and Crap !

They give you all kind of crap reasons which may or may not have been raised by client.

To start with
1) Go straight to your manager and convey how you are legally working by providing services through your company.
Explain him entire situation and as soon as its done, drop an email to him with your company/personal email address stating entire situation as discussed.

Once this is done, your manager will be able to fwd this email to thr legal team and I am sure will be able to explain it to them.
Plus, your A** is covered as you have already dropped an email explaining entire situation.




If I was you ill quote this

you cannot take any employment other than working for the business or businesses that you have established, joined or taken over;


http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas ... onditions/

G M
Junior Member
Posts: 68
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 2:31 am
Location: London

Post by G M » Sun May 26, 2013 12:17 pm

Hi All,

Many thanks for all your responses. the agency legal team emailed me pasting the conditions of stay in Uk under tier 1. I replied them mentioning in detail of each bullet point and sending all my company formation documents attaching with the email. They were quiet for a day. This friday the finance director of the company called me and explained me that there is some issue with your contract and thats why we are putting your role on hold. HR will confirm with Ukba and once clarified I can start again. But this is very unfair as these temporary roles replacement are vry quick. well I did tell them but no point. Now am planning to call Ukba on Tuesday and discuss this with them and if possible get an email from them which will also be used with other agency contracts.

if anyone already got any written emails from ukba please forward.

Thanks G

nimmi007
Newly Registered
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:00 pm

same situation here

Post by nimmi007 » Tue May 28, 2013 11:46 am

Hi
I have secured a contract in IT with one of major agency in UK is rejected my T1 E visa
:(

bnagdev282
Newly Registered
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:03 pm
India

hello

Post by bnagdev282 » Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:38 pm

Hi G M & nimmi ,

Sorry to hear about you..Did you guys managed to find a contract later on a T1 Entreprenuer visa .. I am thinking to switch to Ent visa as my PSW expires in Dec this year..Thanks a lot..

nathan_cr
Newly Registered
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:25 am

Post by nathan_cr » Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:27 am

any updates on this issue? i am facing the same problem.

Lola22
Member
Posts: 237
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:32 pm
Location: Coventry

Post by Lola22 » Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:42 pm

Tier 1 entrepreneur visa is new and most employers do not know anything about the visa or how it works so it will take some time for it to get generally acceptable. Try to explain to your employers about how it works. New applicant should also try to think of business plan that can provide services on a small scale if they do not get a regular contract job as expected.

rahulsingh1
Member
Posts: 221
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:32 pm

Post by rahulsingh1 » Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:44 pm

Yes I think they are taking time.
But its almost 2 years since they started the graduate entrepreneur route and expanded the entrepreneur route.
So I think there has been enough time.

Anyone here wants to share their updates, that would help others in the forum ?

Nimmi and GM ?

Sonia...
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Posts: 31
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Re: Work under tier 1 entrepreneur visa - urgent !!

Post by Sonia... » Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:39 am

I have been working as an IT Contractor with an agency in the category of Tier 1 Entrepreneur visa for last two years. Currently I am doing my fourth contract. As a matter of fact I also have a strong accounting background and so file all my accounts, VAT, payroll, etc, on my own. Let me also confirm that I have two other peers who also happen to work as contractors with an agency in this category. Both works as Cost Accountant in two separate companies.

I might have to draft an entire theses to explain how its possible as I have to gradually build your concepts in terms of few important policies of HMRC but I will give my best shot with references to HO documents. Can I also request everyone to share any of your understandings with references to Home Office links or documents. There is no point sharing your knowledge if you cannot justify it with authentic source.

I believe many of the members in this discussion assume that the role of agency is to hire (employ) an individual and then send him to the client base on its behalf. Yes that is what agencies were limited to only 8 to 10 years ago. With the growing trend of contracting, agencies have now expanded its role and started to fill the positions of contractors where they do not actually have to hire (employ) anyone anymore. Instead of signing an employment contract with you directly, the agency signs a contract with your company and another contract with its client. Yes you still work at client base, but only as a sub-contractor (contractor of an agency), rather than an employee of an agency. The client pays the agency and the agency pays your company after keeping its markup. So none of the parties have to run payroll or hire/employ anyone.


Now here comes the complicated bit. The contract agency signs with your company must comply with the 'AGENCY LEGISLATION (a law similar to IR35)'. In other words the contract must mention a clause along with many other clauses that its a 'CONTRACT FOR SERVICES', rather than 'CONTRACT OF SERVICES' (I will explain what agency legislaiton and contract of /for services mean in a bit) but before that please go through the following part taken from Home Office document.
Genuine entrepreneur activity no contract of service with another business)

Migrants must only work for the business or businesses they have established, joined or taken over. Working for such business(es) does not include any work the applicant does pursuant to a contract of service or apprenticeship for another business, whether express or implied, oral or written. The migrant must be:

- Employed as the director of the business they have invested in
- Working in a genuinely self-employed capacity

Where a migrant enters into contracts with another business in this capacity this will normally be regarded as contacts for service.


They may not be considered to be working for their own business if the work they do is considered to be employment by another business. For example, where the migrant’s work involves the business, in effect, hiring them for their labour or to fill a position or vacancy. This includes where the business hires the individual using a recruitment or employment agency.

Contracts entered into by the migrant with another business in this capacity will normally be regarded as contacts of service.This applies even if the applicant claims the work is undertaken on a self-employed basis.

You must consider the factors set out at ‘Employment status Index’ when you consider if the migrant’s work amounts to:

- Genuine self-employment - work for the business they have established, joined or taken over
- Employment by another business

If you consider an applicant’s work to be employment by another business, you may consider them to be working in breach of their conditions of stay. This makes them liable for curtailment and/or removal action.
The points shared above are extracted from the following Home Office document (Page 5): https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... .0_EXT.pdf Please pay close attention to the points I turned bold which clearly state that you are allowed to engage in a contract with another business unless its a CONTRACT FOR SERVICES (in other words the contract comply with agency legislation) and you are working either as a director or self employed.

Sonia...
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Re: Work under tier 1 entrepreneur visa - urgent !!

Post by Sonia... » Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:43 am

Here is another link of a court case where HO mistakenly refused one of the applicant's visa on the grounds that applicant was working as a contractor with an agency. It's a classic example where case workers are often not well informed with the legalities and difference between contract for services and contract of services. However as the applicant later proves that he was working as a contractor for services and it was clearly stated in his contract, the applicant won the case against HO. Please visit page 3.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/uk-tie ... 73776.html

Now if you have come this far, many of you might be wondering what do you actually mean by all these jargons such as contract of/for services, agency legislation, etc and how can you ensure that your contract with the agency complies with it. Well its all pretty simple but first I need to explain what all these terms mean as having firm grip of these policies is crucial to ensure that your agency contract complies with it.

AGENCY LAW:

If you are subjected to (or to a right of) any supervision, direction, or control as to the manner in which you provide your services during your arrangement/contract, you are subjected to agency legislation. Generally it is considered as 'Contract of Services' as you are working in a manner/relationship of employee of that business although on papers you are a contractor.

However if you are given a free role to complete your task with no one being able to intervene to instruct/manage how the task must be created or look like. The only specific requirement placed on you is that the task for which you are being contracted must be completed and activated before your engagement ends. Generally it is considered as 'Contract for services'

Working at client bases doesn't have to do anything with agency law. You may work at client base throughout ur engagement and will not be subjected to agency legislation/contract of services unless you are not subjected to supervision, direction, or control at client base.

To look deeper into agency legislation, please go through the following link: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/esmmanual/esm2029.htm

At this point if you have understood the concept of agency legislation the next big question for many would be how are you supposed to ensure or request you agency to come up with clauses that make you contract compliant with agency legislation (contract for services). Well the good news is 95% of contracts are already compliant with agency legislation. It must include the clauses complying to agency legislation and clearly state that the agency has engaged you in a contract for services. That is because agency legislation/contract for services is not specifically designed for Tier 1 entrepreneurs, but in fact it's designed for all agency contractors irrespective of his/her status. In short, either a contractor is in Tier 1 category or he/she is a UK/EU citizen, all of them along with their agencies have to comply with it. In case an agency is unable to comply with the legislation then it becomes a relationship of employer/employee (contract of services) b/w the agency and contractor and the agency is supposed run payroll/PAYE for its contractor.

Since its a requirement imposed by HMRC on everyone irrespective of his visa status, you don't need to worry about your contract at all. You just need to confirm that its a agency legislation compliant contract. As for the agencies which are unaware of this categories, you need to explain them that you are fully allowed to work as a contractor unless its contract for services (agency legislation compliant) and use the above references. Since agencies are already in the business of designing agency legislation compliant contracts, they will treat you and your contract the same way.

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