Freelance online work while on a tourist visa

[giblet]

I'm trying to research the legality of doing freelance writing work while on a UK tourist visa. All of the clients are outside of the UK, payment would not be in GBP and would be deposited into a bank account outside of the UK.

I have heard a lot of conflicting info but I can't find anything definitive. I was told about a thread about a visitor who was caught freelancing and the case went before a judge and the case was ruled in his favor. I can't find the thread, however.

Any advice would be appreciated, I want to make sure I'm doing everything by the book!

[physicskate]

I'm trying to research the legality of doing freelance writing work while on a UK tourist visa. All of the clients are outside of the UK, payment would not be in GBP and would be deposited into a bank account outside of the UK.

I have heard a lot of conflicting info but I can't find anything definitive. I was told about a thread about a visitor who was caught freelancing and the case went before a judge and the case was ruled in his favor. I can't find the thread, however.

Any advice would be appreciated, I want to make sure I'm doing everything by the book!

By being a visitor, you are not allowed to undertake work. And by 'work' they mean work that is paid or unpaid. You aren't allowed to do it.

Would it probably go undetected?? Yeah, but it's still illegal...

[giblet]

I'm trying to find more info of the case that I mentioned, if anyone knows about it, I'd appreciate it. I've seen several posts online from people who say they were told by immigration officers that as long as they didn't work in the UK or get paid in GBP, they were okay. I'd like to find some evidence backing that up, though. I have no interest in working illegally.

[physicskate]

I'm trying to find more info of the case that I mentioned, if anyone knows about it, I'd appreciate it. I've seen several posts online from people who say they were told by immigration officers that as long as they didn't work in the UK or get paid in GBP, they were okay. I'd like to find some evidence backing that up, though. I have no interest in working illegally.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... les/part2/

(iii) does not intend to take employment in the United Kingdom; and

(iv) does not intend to produce goods or provide services within the United Kingdom, including the selling of goods or services direct to members of the public...

The stamp that you will be given in your passport will say something like no work or access to public funds. The UK considers producing goods or services to be 'work' whether paid or unpaid. As a visitor, you are not allowed to do this. You are looking for info about people who have done this, contravening laws of the UK, and whether or not they got away with it is a moot point; it was and continues to be illegal.

You can imagine that the UKBA fears that people would work remotely and try to gain defacto residence in the UK. This is why work of any kind is not legal without an appropriate visa.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... r.pdf?view..
The lengthy guidance given on tourist visas also outlines that work and study are prohibited.

[giblet]

You are looking for info about people who have done this, contravening laws of the UK, and whether or not they got away with it is a moot point; it was and continues to be illegal.

No, I'm not, actually. If a case was ruled in a the visitor's favor, that wouldn't be contravening the law. I understand your position but please don't make assumptions on what I intend to do in direct contradiction to what I've stated. I have no intention of working illegally, I am only looking for clarification about a situation that is outside the bounds of traditional employment.

[ouflak1]

Just to clarify a bit (I did warn that this would be uncomfortable), the intention of the OP is strictly to visit the UK for a short stay (weeks). She is self-employed entirely based in her home country and paid there for her services. These services are freelance at-home style work in her home country, strictly for customers who are not in the UK. This work may already be under contract and being performed while she is still out of the UK, in her home country, and does not require, nor has it ever required, her physical presence. If she visits the UK, will she still be allowed to continue this work in some fashion? I believe the answer is 'yes', as long as she does not:

• * Engage in any work with any with any customers in the UK.
  
  * Does not seek to engage in such work with any customers in the UK, nor intend to accept such work if offered.
  
  * Is still based in her home country and will obviously be returning to that base under all of the conditions of a normal visitor's visa.

However, I am uncertain of the precedent supporting this. This is what the OP is wanting to know. Is this the case? If yes, any links supporting that precedent?

The links you have all given so far are specific for work (or restrictions against work) to be performed in the UK. Those conditions are quite clear and the OP understands those conditions and has every intention of abiding by them, hence the post here. For work strictly performed outside the UK, if the person is simply visiting for a short period of time, there don't seem to be any guidelines. The closest I could find are those guidelines for business visitors, but even that implies that fundamentally some of the work is being performed for someone in the UK which is not, nor will it ever be, the case for the OP.

[ukswus]

I'm trying to research the legality of doing freelance writing work while on a UK tourist visa. All of the clients are outside of the UK, payment would not be in GBP and would be deposited into a bank account outside of the UK.

I have heard a lot of conflicting info but I can't find anything definitive. I was told about a thread about a visitor who was caught freelancing and the case went before a judge and the case was ruled in his favor. I can't find the thread, however.

Any advice would be appreciated, I want to make sure I'm doing everything by the book!

By being a visitor, you are not allowed to undertake work. And by 'work' they mean work that is paid or unpaid. You aren't allowed to do it.

Would it probably go undetected?? Yeah, but it's still illegal...

If this were true, than anyone visiting UK and, say, checking their work emai, would be violating this law. UKBA officials could simply go around busy airports arresting anyone appearing to do any work, if they did not have appropriate visas.

Clearly, this would be scandalous, and therefore even if what you are saying is strictly speaking true, no-one is going to chase short term visitors minding work done for non-UK employers.

[ukswus]

However, I am uncertain of the precedent supporting this. This is what the OP is wanting to know. Is this the case? If yes, any links supporting that precedent?

A better question whether there is a precedent when anyone was convicted/deported for doing any kind of work for a non-UK employer while on a short term visa. Just a single case, please? I think we can safely assume that there were lots of cases when people were not convicted/deported.

[ouflak1]

I'm trying to research the legality of doing freelance writing work while on a UK tourist visa. All of the clients are outside of the UK, payment would not be in GBP and would be deposited into a bank account outside of the UK.

I have heard a lot of conflicting info but I can't find anything definitive. I was told about a thread about a visitor who was caught freelancing and the case went before a judge and the case was ruled in his favor. I can't find the thread, however.

Any advice would be appreciated, I want to make sure I'm doing everything by the book!

By being a visitor, you are not allowed to undertake work. And by 'work' they mean work that is paid or unpaid. You aren't allowed to do it.

Would it probably go undetected?? Yeah, but it's still illegal...

If this were true, than anyone visiting UK and, say, checking their work emai, would be violating this law. UKBA officials could simply go around busy airports arresting anyone appearing to do any work, if they did not have appropriate visas.

Clearly, this would be scandalous, and therefore even if what you are saying is strictly speaking true, no-one is going to chase short term visitors minding work done for non-UK employers.

Exactly correct. But more to the point, I believe this matter has actually been elucidated legally. I just can't find the precedent. Anybody?

[physicskate]

The community over at UK Yankee have this discussion frequently....
Please bear in mind this info has come from several posts in this thread:

http://talk.uk-yankee.com/index.php?topic=70129.0


"So in my capacity as an Independent Stakeholder I put these before the Entry Clearance Policy Unit at UKBA. And they gave a reading on it. I have been studying it over the weekend and think an advisory is in order.

Long and short: If you get caught, you will be in *trouble*. The common rationalization is that you're getting paid in dollars to a US bank and it all has nothing to do with the UK. They don't accept that rationalization as valid.

People also use the tactic that they didn't know the way things worked. But from their eyes you had an opportunity to explain what you're going to do in the UK when you landed.

Now just because UKBA says something is illegal doesn't mean the end of the world. You can always have a meeting with the policy people and make a case for them to change their minds. Or you can take them court.

We already know that if you're here for longer than 91 days and have made a remittance to yourself, HMRC gets involved. This advisory completes the picture.

So take note. This advisory isn't going to make some people very happy, but at least you know where you stand.

'Their email did, however, contain this sentence "...If a person is being paid for work they are carrying out whilst in the UK it is considered that they are working...

Remember that immigration status has NOTHING AT ALL to do with tax status, and a UK tax liability can result whilst here visiting. Shocked

Now that HMRC has successfully prosecuted visitors who didn't pay their taxes, people should note that now they can get *two* agencies upset."

"I do all my work on the internet. Get paid in USD. When the UKBA asked me at Heathrow how would I pay for my holiday, I said from internet earnings ongoing. They said that is like working. I said no it happens in the back ground and whilst I sleep I still earn. They didn't like it and questioned me for hours. They went right down to exactly how I earn every cent on the internet. I don't know if they were using me to gather information for others. I argued because the act of not working on holiday is from around 1971, outdated and no internet at that time. I also argued that if a person owns a property and leases it out. They will receive rentals. Whilst they are on holiday they would receive rent. I also said a musician could be paid royalties for their music whilst on holiday. Their answer is your holiday should be short enough so that you would not benefit from earnings from ongoing work. Here lies the problem if you say that you have come for a long holiday and need the money. Best thing is to say I'm on holiday, no correspondence will be done with my work at all. If you are short of money then get a sponsor to write a letter to cover all your costs. In that way you don't actually need your own money. I appealed and they let me out into the UK for 6 weeks. Before the court date they gave up and sent me my passport with a letter saying do not overstay your visa.

That is what a visitor visa is for. Holiday ( No work and no intentions of getting married. ) If you are going to stay with a fiance and returning home then don't even mention that they are your fiance. That will mean you may intend to settle on your visitor visa and get married. NOT ALLOWED. You will quickly find your visa cancelled and returned on the next flight. "

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/volunteer ... -1-4409004

[ouflak1]

Before the court date they gave up and sent me my passport with a letter saying do not overstay your visa.

Thanks Kate! Looks like common sense prevailed on the matter, but this still should give some proper perspective for the OP.

[physicskate]

Before the court date they gave up and sent me my passport with a letter saying do not overstay your visa.

Thanks Kate! Looks like common sense prevailed on the matter, but this still should give some proper perspective for the OP.

Even if not convicted/ deported, this is breaking the law in the UK and could tarnish a person's immigration history, barring them for future visas and visits to the UK and other countries...

The likelihood of getting caught: very very slim. But this galls me!!! I have worked me rear-end off to remain here legally, and this flaunts the letter and spirit of the law, giving immigrants, like myself, a bad name.

This leaves a horrible taste in my mouth!!!

[giblet]

Like I said, physicskate, I have no intention of working illegally and have more than enough savings to fund my visit to the UK. As you can probably tell by viewing my previous posts, I do a lot of research to make sure I fully understand all of my options completely. The fact that I'm trying to better understand the nuances of the law really shouldn't be cause for you to get so upset.

[ouflak1]

Even if not convicted/ deported, this is breaking the law in the UK and could tarnish a person's immigration history, barring them for future visas and visits to the UK and other countries...

If not convicted or otherwise found to have broken the conditions of a visa, then it won't be held against you in any subsequent application. I think that part is obvious and logical, but just wanted to calmly state it. There's no need for panic here. Just careful consideration.

...and this flaunts the letter and spirit of the law, giving immigrants, like myself, a bad name.

This is entirely debatable. The spirit of the law is very obviously to prevent foreigners from coming into the UK and taking work that might:

• * Take a job away from a local/native worker
  
  * Place them in a dangerous or exploitive situation without any recourse for help
  
  * Cause someone, who has not contributed to the UK economy via taxes, to become a drain on the UK's resources.

This is why the United Kingdom set up the parts of the visa system regarding work.

There are many situations which are very complicated and anything but clear-cut in this regards. What gives immigrants a bad name is obviously taking advantage of the UK immigration and social welfare system outside of the bounds of any visa that an immigrant might have obtained, or not obtained i.e. entered illegally. That a visitor might be able to do, and does, work strictly confined to their home country, and otherwise stays and leaves the UK within the confines of their visitor visa, isn't even a blip on the radar. Not in our 'perception' and not legally (or else it would have been easy and obvious to find the relevant cases). You'd probably have to really work to even explain this particular situation to a native UK citizen, and I doubt most would really care. It's not something that will ever be in the news because it's just not that big of a deal. And afterall, even UK citizens occasionally travel abroad and have to reply to their business emails, or be on call 24 hrs for emergencies. That's just the way world turns. The fact that there exists such a thing as a business visitor visa, in all of its strewn about scenarios, means the even the UKBA realizes that just because someone is visiting the UK, doesn't mean that the professional world they left behind just stopped existing for the length of their stay in the UK.

This leaves a horrible taste in my mouth!!!

I wouldn't give it a second thought. It's not worth it.

[acogl]

Hi,

Thank you for this post. I know this is a bit late now. But may I know if you got the answer you needed to this question? I think I am also a freelancer who works online outside uk and my clients are also from outside the UK.

[CR001]

Hi,

Thank you for this post. I know this is a bit late now. But may I know if you got the answer you needed to this question? I think I am also a freelancer who works online outside uk and my clients are also from outside the UK.

This topic is almost 4 years old and the original poster has not visited the forum since August 2013. Suggest start your own topic with your circumstances and please refrain from digging up old threads.