Can I apply from inside the UK? Please help....

[darkcloud20]

Hi all,

I don't know whether I can apply from Inside the UK.

I came in the UK in January 2012 to do a Foundation course. After that I started my BSc Computer Science (in a different university), I finished it in 2015. Then I got admitted to MSc Computer Science in a different university in 2015 October, it is a 1 year course. But I did Not complete the course, I have withdrawn from the course in April 2016 (I did Not do any module during MSc). The university told me that I will receive a 60 days letter from the HomeOffice anytime.
I have Not received any letter from the HomeOffice yet.
I want to start the course (which I did Not finish) from the beginning and I want to apply to a different university for MSc Computer Science or other computing related MSc course. Can I get a CAS from a university/institution?
Can I apply from INSIDE the UK ? I am veryy confused...
[P.S: I extended (from within the UK) my Tier 4 visa 2 times after coming to the UK. The first extension was for BSc and the 2nd one for MSc. Since I came in the UK, I did Not go to my home country]

Please reply as soon as possible. Thanks.

[darkcloud20]

Please help...its very urgent

[darkcloud20]

can someone help please?

[darkcloud20]

[noajthan]

Someone may reply if/when they are available and have some concrete advice to offer.
Stand by.

UKCISA website may prove helpful too: http://www.ukcisa.org.uk/

[keysersoze22]

You won't be having any course I am afraid.

New update https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... 016-04.pdf - page 34, 5.25 regarding Academic Progression. You have to demonstrate that you have successfully completed the last course you obtained tier 4 leave from.

Note that academic progression does not apply to out of UK applications.

[darkcloud20]

You won't be having any course I am afraid.

New update https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... 016-04.pdf - page 34, 5.25 regarding Academic Progression. You have to demonstrate that you have successfully completed the last course you obtained tier 4 leave from.

Note that academic progression does not apply to out of UK applications.

Is there any way I can apply from inside the UK? for any course?

[keysersoze22]

You'll meet a straight visa refusal, and most (if not all) sponsors will not issue you a CAS for your studies. If you get a CAS for your course in-country, it will result in a visa refusal as it is now explictly stated within the CAS. The only way for you to continue your course would be to leave the UK and apply overseas, where Academic Progression does not factor in to it (but Credibility does, which will then open your case to more analysis as to why you didn't do your course).

Apologies.

[darkcloud20]

You'll meet a straight visa refusal, and most (if not all) sponsors will not issue you a CAS for your studies. If you get a CAS for your course in-country, it will result in a visa refusal as it is now explictly stated within the CAS. The only way for you to continue your course would be to leave the UK and apply overseas, where Academic Progression does not factor in to it (but Credibility does, which will then open your case to more analysis as to why you didn't do your course).

Apologies.

what is explicitly stated within the CAS?

If I decide to apply from outside the UK, can I get a CAS from a university before I leave UK ?

[keysersoze22]

It will be a condition of your CAS that you provide your entry stamps in your passport to your home country. Most (if not all, I say most as there may be one or two that haven't fully grasped the new rules of 6 of April yet) will require that you evidence your departure from the UK before issuing the CAS. Tier 4 sponsors have benchmarks to meet, and one of them is visa refusal numbers. Higher than a threshold and they lose their license - hence why I don't think you'll get a CAS in the UK.

In regards to out of the UK application, there have been examples of students who were given a CAS for a new couse on the basis of the student evidfencing ill health etc which affected their previous course. However this is entirely down to the discretion of the University and can only be done when the migrant is out of the UK.

[darkcloud20]

It will be a condition of your CAS that you provide your entry stamps in your passport to your home country. Most (if not all, I say most as there may be one or two that haven't fully grasped the new rules of 6 of April yet) will require that you evidence your departure from the UK before issuing the CAS. Tier 4 sponsors have benchmarks to meet, and one of them is visa refusal numbers. Higher than a threshold and they lose their license - hence why I don't think you'll get a CAS in the UK.

In regards to out of the UK application, there have been examples of students who were given a CAS for a new couse on the basis of the student evidfencing ill health etc which affected their previous course. However this is entirely down to the discretion of the University and can only be done when the migrant is out of the UK.

Oh I have some questions:---
1) Is there any ruling in the guidance which states I cannot have a CAS from inside the UK (if I decide to apply from overseas) ?

2) Is there any way (e.g.- making a request to HO or any other way) I can apply from Inside the UK?

3) What about the 5 year CAP? Will they consider the time which I spent during MSc ? (note: I did Not do any module during that MSc because of personal reasons)

4) If I leave 15 days before my curtailment finish, will they ignore the last 15 days when counting the 5 year cap ? I am very confused

5) Can I get "Offer letters" from different universities before I leave the UK?

6) At this moment, can I switch to Tier-2 visa?

7) For example if I can switch to a Tier-2 visa and spend 1 year on that visa, can I switch to Tier-4 from Tier 2 (from inside the UK) ?

In the HO tier 4 guidance for sponsors, in page 40 they said --

If granted, the student’s leave would begin on 1 August 2015 and expire on 1 October 2017 (course duration 22 months + 1 month added before + 4 months added after the course). This is a total of 27 months,.....

I calculated from 1 Aug 2015 to 1 Oct 2017 myself, but it does NOT come up as 27 months. How the HO came up with 27 months? I mean how they calculated the duration here? I need to know the procedure which they use to calculate duration, please...

[noajthan]

Oh
Is there any ruling in the guidance which states I cannot have a CAS from inside the UK (if I decide to apply from overseas) ?

Can I get "Offer letters" from different universities before I leave the UK?

Tier 2 is for highly-skilled occupations that cannot readily be filled from within UK and Europe - do you meet T2 requirements?

What's the big deal on studying (or 'remaining') in UK?
After all, you can study in high-quality teaching establishments all across Europe (many through the medium of English).

[vinny]

Germany?

[darkcloud20]

(sorry I gave a "cool" emoticon by mistake in the previous post)

Oh I have some questions:---
1) Is there any ruling in the guidance which states I cannot have a CAS from inside the UK (if I decide to apply from overseas) ?

2) Is there any way (e.g.- making a request to HO or any other way) I can apply from Inside the UK?

3) What about the 5 year CAP? Will they consider the time which I spent during MSc ? (note: I did Not do any module during that MSc because of personal reasons)

4) If I leave 15 days before my curtailment finish, will they ignore the last 15 days when counting the 5 year cap ? I am very confused

5) Can I get "Offer letters" from different universities before I leave the UK?

6) At this moment, can I switch to Tier-2 visa?

7) For example if I can switch to a Tier-2 visa and spend 1 year on that visa, can I switch to Tier-4 from Tier 2 (from inside the UK) ?

8-
In the HO tier 4 guidance for sponsors, in page 40 they said --
If granted, the student’s leave would begin on 1 August 2015 and expire on 1 October 2017 (course duration 22 months + 1 month added before + 4 months added after the course). This is a total of 27 months,.....

I calculated from 1 Aug 2015 to 1 Oct 2017 myself, but it does NOT come up as 27 months. How the HO came up with 27 months? I mean how they calculated the duration here? I need to know the procedure which they use to calculate duration, please...

[CR001]

8-
In the HO tier 4 guidance for sponsors, in page 40 they said --
If granted, the student’s leave would begin on 1 August 2015 and expire on 1 October 2017 (course duration 22 months + 1 month added before + 4 months added after the course). This is a total of 27 months,.....

I calculated from 1 Aug 2015 to 1 Oct 2017 myself, but it does NOT come up as 27 months. How the HO came up with 27 months? I mean how they calculated the duration here? I need to know the procedure which they use to calculate duration, please...

Have you missed the bit in bold underlined (that I did in your post)??

[darkcloud20]

8-
In the HO tier 4 guidance for sponsors, in page 40 they said --
If granted, the student’s leave would begin on 1 August 2015 and expire on 1 October 2017 (course duration 22 months + 1 month added before + 4 months added after the course). This is a total of 27 months,.....

I calculated from 1 Aug 2015 to 1 Oct 2017 myself, but it does NOT come up as 27 months. How the HO came up with 27 months? I mean how they calculated the duration here? I need to know the procedure which they use to calculate duration, please...

Have you missed the bit in bold underlined (that I did in your post)??

No I did not miss that.

In the example, the leave starts on 1 Aug 2015 and expires 1 Oct 2017. So, "from 1 aug 2015 to 1 oct 2017" = 27 months (according to the HO). HO also breaks down the "27 months" as "22 months course + 1 month before the course + 4 months after the course"

Using a day counting software, I found that from 1 Aug 2015 to 1 Oct 2017 = 26 months 1 day (NOT 27 months).

Could you please tell me how Home Office came up with 27 months? How they calculate a duration when calculating 5 year cap? Please

[keysersoze22]

(sorry I gave a "cool" emoticon by mistake in the previous post)

Oh I have some questions:---
1) Is there any ruling in the guidance which states I cannot have a CAS from inside the UK (if I decide to apply from overseas) ?

2) Is there any way (e.g.- making a request to HO or any other way) I can apply from Inside the UK?

3) What about the 5 year CAP? Will they consider the time which I spent during MSc ? (note: I did Not do any module during that MSc because of personal reasons)

4) If I leave 15 days before my curtailment finish, will they ignore the last 15 days when counting the 5 year cap ? I am very confused

5) Can I get "Offer letters" from different universities before I leave the UK?

6) At this moment, can I switch to Tier-2 visa?

7) For example if I can switch to a Tier-2 visa and spend 1 year on that visa, can I switch to Tier-4 from Tier 2 (from inside the UK) ?

8-
In the HO tier 4 guidance for sponsors, in page 40 they said --
If granted, the student’s leave would begin on 1 August 2015 and expire on 1 October 2017 (course duration 22 months + 1 month added before + 4 months added after the course). This is a total of 27 months,.....

I calculated from 1 Aug 2015 to 1 Oct 2017 myself, but it does NOT come up as 27 months. How the HO came up with 27 months? I mean how they calculated the duration here? I need to know the procedure which they use to calculate duration, please...

1) No ruling but what good would a CAS in the UK give you? Most compliance departments would have this as a huge question mark about your motives here - they'd assume you would apply in the UK, despite your promises that you wont..

2) No, the rules have changed. You are unable to issue a CAS in the UK for a student who has not successfully completed their course. At all.

3) The time spent on a Tier 4 Visa counts to your cap. It is irrelevant if you were 8 months in to a course and chose not to attend or do any modules. Those 8 months count to your CAP. It is until the point where your visa is curtailed.

4) Best off asking HO about this.

5) Offer letters yes, CAS no.

[darkcloud20]

Thank you so much for reply.

Can anyone please help me with Questions 6, 7, 8 ? ----

6) At this moment, can I switch to Tier-2 visa?
7) For example if I can switch to a Tier-2 visa and spend 1 year on that visa, can I switch to Tier-4 from Tier 2 (from inside the UK) ?
8-
In the HO tier 4 guidance for sponsors, in page 40 they said --
If granted, the student’s leave would begin on 1 August 2015 and expire on 1 October 2017 (course duration 22 months + 1 month added before + 4 months added after the course). This is a total of 27 months,.....

I calculated from 1 Aug 2015 to 1 Oct 2017 myself, but it does NOT come up as 27 months. How the HO came up with 27 months? I mean how they calculated the duration here? I need to know the procedure which they use to calculate duration, please...

[darkcloud20]

@keysersoze22

2) The rules have changed as you said. But can there be an exception in my case? Can I request to the HO to permit me to apply from inside the UK because it's veryyyy unsafe for me to go to my home country? (Note: the situation of my home country is veryyyy bad right now)

3) Was my foundation programme a "Below-degree" level course/programme ? During my MSc, I could Not do any module (and I could Not attend many classes, the only thing I did is a Test in the first semester) due to Depression. Can I request the HO to ignore the period of MSc (around 7 months) when calculating the CAP? Will I have to request the HO or the University?
If the university finds that I will exceed the 5 year CAP, what can they/I do?

you said -

It is until the point where your visa is curtailed.

I withdrawn from the MSc in mid April. I have NOT got any curtailment letter yet. I do Not know whether my visa is curtailed yet. I am very consfused.
Is the 60 days period considered in the Cap ?

Ques 9: Do I need the curtailment letter if I want to get "offer letters" from Inside the UK? (at the moment I have a withdrawal letter from the university which confirms that I have withdrawed).

Please reply asap. Very urgent Thanks a lot.

[keysersoze22]

2. No, that is not what Tier 4 is for. If you have true issues with your home country being unsafe and you are unsafe, there are other immigration categories - I am not proficient with them, but you would get no exception in this case. Remember that every Tier 4 Sponsor effectively has the Home Office having the threat of revoking their license if they abuse the "Academic Progression" rule, and yours would classify as an abuse from the sponsor.

3. They will not ignore the CAP. You were in the United Kingdom on a tier 4 visa. Therefore this will count to your CAP, irregardless of depression.

Other point: Call the HO to find out about your curtailment, or request that your old sponsor contact the HO to find out if your leave is being curtailed. You'll need to give them your permission to discuss the case.

Lastly, regarding your point about switching in to Tier 4 from another category. UKVI changed the wording of Academic Progression to shut this down on the 6th of April - "In order to demonstrate academic progression a student must have either successfully completed (meaning they have achieved the qualification for which they were studying) the course for which they were last granted Tier 4 leave or, if they have changed courses with the same sponsor, the course they changed to. A student can demonstrate this by having received the award or through formalwritten confirmation from their sponsor. " Tier 2 and other variants are not my speciality.

[noajthan]

Reality check. Time for a Plan B.

After all it is possible to study in high-quality universities (that are at least on a par with UK) all across Europe;
(many programmes nowadays cater for the international market and are delivered through the medium of English).

[keysersoze22]

Reality check. Time for a Plan B.

After all it is possible to study in high-quality universities (that are at least on a par with UK) all across Europe;
(many programmes nowadays cater for the international market and are delivered through the medium of English).

Please heed Noajthan's words. I've used examples to counter your plans on Tier 4, but you must consider a Plan B now.

[darkcloud20]

Hi, Thanks for the reply.

@keysersoze22. You said -

I've used examples to counter your plans on Tier 4, but you must consider a Plan B now.

What examples? Sorry I didn't get it...

@keysersoze22.

Lastly, regarding your point about switching in to Tier 4 from another category. UKVI changed the wording of Academic Progression to shut this down on the 6th of April

To shut WHAT ? ..

@keysersoze22.

3. They will not ignore the CAP. You were in the United Kingdom on a tier 4 visa. Therefore this will count to your CAP, irregardless of depression.

I was suffering from severe depression, that's why I could Not do any module. So there was NO PROGRESS during my MSc. Is there any way the Home Office or the future university will NOT count that period of MSc (around 7 months) while calculating the Cap?

Is there anyone who can help me with the following questions please? It's veryy veryy urgent..

6) At this moment, can I switch to Tier-2 visa from within the UK?

7) For example if I can switch to a Tier-2 visa and spend 1 year on that Tier 2 visa, can I switch to Tier-4 from Tier 2 (from inside the UK)?

8-
In the HO tier 4 guidance for sponsors, in page 40 they said --
If granted, the student’s leave would begin on 1 August 2015 and expire on 1 October 2017 (course duration 22 months + 1 month added before + 4 months added after the course). This is a total of 27 months,.....

I calculated from 1 Aug 2015 to 1 Oct 2017 myself, but it does NOT come up as 27 months. How the HO came up with 27 months? I mean how they calculated the duration here? I need to know the procedure which they use to calculate duration, please...

Thanks a lot...

[keysersoze22]

I was suffering from severe depression, that's why I could Not do any module. So there was NO PROGRESS during my MSc. Is there any way the Home Office or the future university will NOT count that period of MSc (around 7 months) while calculating the Cap?

No. It does not matter about your "progress". The fact is you were on a Tier 4 Visa during this time. Therefore you were eating in to your CAP. Illness or not I am afraid.

And no, you cannot switch to tier 4 from another category. My previous post contains the rule change that emphasises on this. "In order to demonstrate academic progression a student must have either successfully completed (meaning they have achieved the qualification for which they were studying) the course for which they were last granted Tier 4 leave or, if they have changed courses with the same sponsor, the course they changed to. A student can demonstrate this by having received the award or through formalwritten confirmation from their sponsor." This changed from the previous rules, where this quote stated "Last granted leave", so you could go down this route you were describing. That has now been plugged.

[keysersoze22]

Modification to my previous post: And no, you cannot switch to tier 4 from another category. should read "And no, you will not be successful in being able to switch to tier 4 from another category"