UK citizen with RSA partner emigrating to Ireland

[mcdonald.raymond]

Good day all,

I have more questions about some issues I am still unsure about - any help or clarity would be hugely appreciated to give my partner and I some peace of mind.

So in short, my girlfriend (South African passport) and I (British Passport) are moving to Republic of Ireland at the end of this year with the intention of staying permanently i.e. working and living in Dublin. Our plan (according to all the research done and questions I have already asked) is to book one way tickets to Dublin and at DUB airport, notify the immigration officials at Passport Control of our intentions, as I'm sure they will ask her for proof of a return ticket or some evidence of leaving the country within the allotted 60 day period, whereby we will be scheduled to go to GNIB Offices and see immigration officers where we can justify our intentions to stay and get my girlfriend granted "leave to remain" for 12 months. Once we are there, I can start to "exercise my right" as a EU (British) citizen and get registered, get employed etc. After a few months of me working we can apply for the De Facto Partnership Immigration Permission (as we have substantive evidence of living in a marriage like relationship for over two years) whereupon once that gets granted my girlfriend can get Stamp 4 permission and start to work as well.

OK so please forgive me if you perceive me to be naive, I do realize that there is way more to consider in between, I am just plotting out the rough scheme I have and asking for any input where I may be mistaken. I also realize that this path will take a long time, and will not happen overnight.

If there are any areas in the above scenario where you believe I am wrong could you please help to point them out for me. We are really trying to do everything to get into the country above board and we will have more than adequate financial backing coming into the country to start a new life.

I look forward to any feedback you may have - hoping it will be positive.

[noajthan]

Sounds like a plan.

How substantive is your evidence of durable relationship?
Have you played devil's advocate and tested it with your INIS hat on?

This may help fill in any gaps on free movement:
http://ec.europa.eu/justice/citizen/doc ... 013_en.pdf

[mcdonald.raymond]

So the list in bold below is taken directly from the INIS website and we have evidence for all of those criteria (we have been living together for over 3 years) which I assume is adequate?

Evidence Considered in a De Facto Partnership Immigration Permission (DFPIP) Application

An application for De Facto Partner Permission should include;

1. A history of the relationship including when the partners met and when they began the relationship.

2. Legible copies of all pages of both partners’ passports.

3. Dated documentary evidence of living together continuously over a period of two years in a common place of residence such as official letters or bills sent to the same address and/or joint tenancy agreement and dated documentary evidence of the relationship.

4. Dated evidence of financial inter-dependence such as transfer receipts, joint accounts, joint purchases, joint assets or loans.

5. Financial statements covering the previous 6 months for both partners showing living expenses ie where the finances are coming from and where they are going to.

6. Evidence of contact between the Applicant and the Sponsor, such as letters, emails, phone contacts, screenshots of facebook and skype to cover the entire length of the relationship but at the very least covering two years.

7. Evidence of time spent together such as dated photographs for the Applicant and the Sponsor together with family and friends and air tickets showing travel together.

8. Police clearance from any country the Applicant has resided in over the last 5 years. The Police clearance should be no more than six months old at the date of application.

What I am currently more concerned about is if we arrive at Passport Control in Dublin Airport and they turn my girlfriend away if she doesn't have a return ticket? Is there no way we can get some kind of written confirmation before hand stating our rights according to our intentions?

Thanks all!

[noajthan]

#3 goes above and beyond EU law (as is case in UK too). Co-habitation is not mandatory.

As to entry, as gf is visa-free so she should be good to enter the country.

See also:
https://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/0 ... to-travel/

Note if do you take this approach you may have to prove your durable relationship etc etc on the spot. Prepare for stress, delays and take all documentation.

And note gf is an extended family member (until if/when you marry, then she will be a direct family member).
Ref https://eumovement.wordpress.com/2008/0 ... ficiaries/

Regarding extended family members:

The host Member State shall undertake an extensive examination of the personal circumstances and shall justify any denial of entry or residence to these people.

(But it should all be unnecessary as gf is visa-free for Eire).

And see https://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/0 ... u-citizen/

• There is no legal requirement that:
  
  The EU citizen is already (or will be) living or working in a different EU member state
  The non-EU family member holds a specific immigration visa or status. It is fine for them to have a nationally issued visa or a student visa or a visitor’s visa or even implied status
  The family member apply in their country of origin
  The family member resides or previously resided in the EU/EEA

Note point about visitor/implied visa.

There is also no legal requirement that you submit:

• bank statements
  pay slips
  letters from your present or future employer or school
  letters of reference
  proof that you will return at the end of the trip
  airline tickets
  confirmed hotel bookings
  references or guarantees from people in the destination country

Worst case: go armed with a copy of the Directive.

[mcdonald.raymond]

The worry is that we keep getting comments from acquaintances warning us of getting denied entry etc. as we are gearing up to book our flights in the next couple of weeks and they are casting doubt on the process.

We have had comments along the lines of: "it's impossible to just show up in a country and tell them that you want to live there and they grant you access".

So in your opinion - do you think that going ahead and buying one way tickets to Dublin through a straight forward travel agent will not cause any problems?

Thank you!

[CR001]

Is your partner in the UK or in SA, i.e. where is she flying from? I can't see clearly in your posts if you mention this.

[mcdonald.raymond]

Apologies - we currently live together in Cape Town, RSA. We are planning to fly with Emirates from Johannesburg, lay over in Dubai, and then straight through to Dublin.

I will leave RSA on my British passport (I am a dual citizenship holder, been living in RSA from a young age) and her on her RSA passport. Will that be OK?

[noajthan]

The worry is that we keep getting comments from acquaintances warning us of getting denied entry etc. as we are gearing up to book our flights in the next couple of weeks and they are casting doubt on the process.

We have had comments along the lines of: "it's impossible to just show up in a country and tell them that you want to live there and they grant you access".

So in your opinion - do you think that going ahead and buying one way tickets to Dublin through a straight forward travel agent will not cause any problems?

Thank you!

Do these acquaintances have any insight into these matters?
Have you discussed their concerns based on the suggestions and links above?

As per above, one way ticket and visa-free arrival should sort you out.

If you had needed a C visa you'd be waiting for months as Eire/INIS is running on some sort of go-slow;
(see related topics on that matter).

[mcdonald.raymond]

Thank you very much for the re-assuring feedback, we are understandably nervous about this endeavor as there is so little information available about these kind of things here in South Africa.

So in terms of that sequence of events: arrive in Ireland, apply for leave to remain (for partner), become a registered citizen, seek out and find employment, apply for de facto partnership immigration permission (stamp 4 for partner), partner starts working etc...

Is that realistic/ achievable? And what kind of "ballpark" estimate of time would be needed for all of that to happen?

Again - thank you all for the feedback, it is very helpful for us to read something positive.

[CR001]

I will leave RSA on my British passport (I am a dual citizenship holder, been living in RSA from a young age) and her on her RSA passport. Will that be OK?

It is illegal to depart SA on a foreign passport if you have a South African passport and are a SA citizen. You should depart SA on your SA passport to avoid delays in you being allowed to leave.

My husband left on his UK passport from Johannesburg in 2008 and we almost missed our flight due to them questioning him about this at Passport Control as he is also a dual citizen.

[noajthan]

Thank you very much for the re-assuring feedback, we are understandably nervous about this endeavor as there is so little information available about these kind of things here in South Africa.

So in terms of that sequence of events: arrive in Ireland, apply for leave to remain (for partner), become a registered citizen, seek out and find employment, apply for de facto partnership immigration permission (stamp 4 for partner), partner starts working etc...

Is that realistic/ achievable? And what kind of "ballpark" estimate of time would be needed for all of that to happen?

Again - thank you all for the feedback, it is very helpful for us to read something positive.

Get sponsor into harness and working (and collating documentary supporting evidence) asap before applying for the EU-related paperwork.

As for timings that's in lap of the gods, depends on state of economy and market for your particular skillsets & etc etc.
Be aware some migrants struggle to find any work, and Dublin cost of living is relatively expensive.

But do take some time out to check out the various film set locations for the latest Star Wars film. You know what they say about all work and no play.

[mcdonald.raymond]

It is illegal to depart SA on a foreign passport if you have a South African passport and are a SA citizen. You should depart SA on your SA passport to avoid delays in you being allowed to leave.

My husband left on his UK passport from Johannesburg in 2008 and we almost missed our flight due to them questioning him about this at Passport Control as he is also a dual citizen.

Yes, sorry I have actually read that somewhere before - thank you, I forgot.

What are the critical documents I would require as a British Citizen registering for RoI/EU citizenship?

[CR001]

What are the critical documents I would require as a British Citizen registering for RoI/EU citizenship?

But you are not apply for RoI/EU citizenship. You are going to Ireland as a British citizen to exercise treaty rights (i.e. work). Citizenship takes years and requires residence.

As a British citizen, you are free to work in Ireland without restriction. Follow the advice noajthan has given you.

[mcdonald.raymond]

OK, thank you - I will not over complicate it. Thank you for helping us out with all the information - we really appreciate it!

[noajthan]

OK, thank you - I will not over complicate it. Thank you for helping us out with all the information - we really appreciate it!

You have enough to work on for now without shooting for citizenship.
Its early days - why not see if you like the place first.
And thanks to CTA you don't really need citizenship.

[tamsincraddock]

Hi Raymond,

I have just come across your article and you seem to have been in the exact same position as myself and my Boyfriend. I am a South African and he is a British Citizen- we are looking to relocate to Ireland next month. Our situation and plan of action is exactly as you have explained above. Please could you let me know how things worked out for you? Please also let me know if you have any advice, etc... It would be greatly appreciated.