FLR(FP) Refused with no right to Appeal - for Mother-In-Law

[indiansoninlaw]

Hello members,

I am looking for some advise from you.

My mother-in-law has been visiting us for last 6 years, and stay with us every 6 months per year since then. She is seperated, 67 year old and 100% dependent on us. She has another daughter who is in India, but for last 3 years, she has no relationship with her daughter as she threw her out of the house because my mother-in-law was too weak to help around the house.

My mother-in-law case to visit us for 6 months in July 2015, and got very disturbed with the thought of going back to India as she had no-one to look after her. She has several medical conditions and need some support and care on a day to day basis.

We met a 'famous' solicitor and he convinced us that we should apply for her settlement based on elderly parent and right to family life. We went to the solicitor well in advance, but his team left it for the last minute and completed the application in 1 hour and submitted 1 week before the visa expiry. My mother-in-law had a 6 month Visitor Visa.

The application was submitted in late December, and on 5th July I received call from the solicitor's office that the application has been refused without right to appeal.

His team advised us that we have 3 months to take action.

I am now very worried:

1. We didn't hire a good solicitor (he is the most famous solicitor in Southall)
2. Our application was poorly prepared as it was very informally completed in 1 hour, with no supporting documents. We kept asking his team if you need anything from us, and they said no. We only supplied pictures we had taken from here, and my Wife's birth certificate as proof of relationship.
3. I am not sure what options do we have?

I need urgent help from the experienced members to guide us in the right direction, and to tell us if we have any chance of getting the application back on track even after refusal with no appeal right.

Many thanks in advance.

[Wanderer]

These visas have an almost 100% track record of being denied and then leading to subsequent denials of visit visa applications.

The logic applied is care and treatment would be cheaper for you to pay back home on her behalf rather than UK taxpayer footing the bill here - and that logic is hard to deny.

[Casa]

Wanderer is right. Even with a better prepared application there would have been little chance of success. Firstly, the HO are unsympathetic towards anyone entering as a visitor and then deciding they don't want to return home. Most importantly an applicant as an adult dependent would have to prove that they are unable to carry out daily tasks such as bathing, dressing, preparing food etc. Even if this is shown to be the case, it would also have to be proven that the care needed was either not available in their home country or was unaffordable. The Case Worker would take the view that if you can afford to care for your mother in the UK (where costs are higher), then you would be able to afford the necessary care in India.

The 'most famous solicitor in Southall' should have explained this to you before going ahead with the application (and taking their fee)
Realistically a Judicial Review isn't likely to succeed.
Your solicitor should also have warned you that a failed ADV application under FLR(FP) will mean that you have closed the door to any visitor visa applications for your mother in the future.
This article from FreeMovement.org explains the situation well.
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/out-with-the-old/

Your only option if you are willing to re-locate as a family would be to take the Surinder Singh route, living and working in another EU state, proving that you have 'moved the centre of your life' there. After a reasonable length of time (at least several months), you could all move back to the UK together.
However, bear in mind that with Brexit the days may be numbered for this.

https://www.freemovement.org.uk/surinde ... ion-route/

https://www.gov.uk/family-permit/surinder-singh

[Casa]

You mention that your mother has several medical conditions. Does she hold private medical insurance as she doesn't have access to free NHS treatment?

[indiansoninlaw]

You mention that your mother has several medical conditions. Does she hold private medical insurance as she doesn't have access to free NHS treatment?

Hi Casa,

Yes, she has private medical cover.

[indiansoninlaw]

The 'most famous solicitor in Southall' should have explained this to you before going ahead with the application (and taking their fee)
Realistically an appeal would be pointless.
Your solicitor should also have warned you that a failed ADV application under FLR(FP) will mean that you have closed the door to any visitor visa applications for your mother in the future.

-------------

I really wished he did.

I specifically asked him, if the application gets refused and she goes back, will she be able to come back and he said, not immediately, but in an years time, she should be able to apply for the visa and come as a visitor.

This solicitory charged me over £1K for filling the application form and didn't give me any advise. I suppose our emotions got better of us and we went ahead with his advise as we thought he has hundreds / thousands of cases, and he must know what he is doing.

Another friend's Mother's application was done by another solicitor, and her application got refused, WITH right to appeal. I am guessing she at least has a chance to prove her case.

Is there anyway we can appeal the decision and get a chance to appeal, is it worth it?

Finally, as her application was refused on 5th July, how long does she has before she must go back to India gracefully.

I really appreciate your advise and guidance.

[indiansoninlaw]

Just thinking about it, do we have any chance to apply under article 8? "Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights" or will it surely be a waste of more money?

I am going to see the solicitor tomorrow morning, and want to be sure that I don't end up throwing away thousands more without any hope of success.

[Casa]

Your mother hasn't been given a right of appeal but you can go ahead with a Judicial Review. The legal fees for this will be considerable and I'm not optimistic over a positive outcome. There have been only a handful of successful ADV applications since the Immigration Rules were tightened and these appear to have been extreme cases. I believe you have 3 months in which to apply for a JR.
IMHO your solicitor has misled you over future visitor visa applications. Once the intention to settle has been declared, there is no '1 year exemption period', it will be on permanent record and flag all future visitor visa applications for a refusal. Members are always warned of this on the forum if asking for advice when they are considering applying as Adult Dependent.

I also believe that FLR(FP) was the wrong visa category. This is for partners or a parent of a child resident in the UK, not adult dependent relatives.

An article 8 application is unlikely to succeed as you aren't being prevented from enjoying family life together in India.
Surinder Singh may still be your best option if you are determined to have your mother with you, but it will involve some personal sacrifice by re-locating the whole family (at least temporarily) to another EU state.

[Obie]

They really cannot certify her claim giving the circumstances you have elaborated.

However the chances of success with these application are really slim.

The best option will be going with your mother to another EU state.

If she goes, it is likely that she will not be able to come again.

[indiansoninlaw]

> The best option will be going with your mother to another EU state.

If she goes, it is likely that she will not be able to come again.

Many thanks Casa / Obie,

One final question, if we decide not to ask for a Judicial Review, how long does she have to go back to India?

We were advised by the Solicitor of refusal on 5th July.

[Casa]

Has her visitor visa expired?

[indiansoninlaw]

Has her visitor visa expired?

Yes.

[CR001]

Has your solicitor provided you with the letter from HO?

[indiansoninlaw]

Has your solicitor provided you with the letter from HO?

Not yet, I am going to see them tomorrow.

[indiansoninlaw]

Has your solicitor provided you with the letter from HO?

Not yet, I am going to see them tomorrow.

But, on phone his office person did say that you have 3 months from today to take next action, so please come and see the solicitor ASAP.

[Casa]

It might be best to post again once you've had sight of the HO refusal letter. There may be instructions on making arrangements to leave. Be wary of your solicitor promising over-optimistic chances for success in a Judicial Review in order to profit from additional legal fees.

[indiansoninlaw]

It might be best to post again once you've had sight of the HO refusal letter. There may be instructions on making arrangements to leave. Be wary of your solicitor promising over-optimistic chances for success in a Judicial Review in order to profit from additional legal fees.

Thanks Casa, noted.

The worst part is, that we have unknowingly messed up her chances of visiting us on Visitor visa as well as we listened to this solicitor.

Realistically, once she go back, is there any chance she will be every given a visitor visa again .

[Casa]

Due to the way visitor visa applications are currently reviewed following a refused ADV application, I'm afraid not. Even more so perhaps as your mother entered as a visitor and then made an attempt to remain in the UK. I still believe that your solicitor submitted an application under the wrong category.

I can only sympathise that you've found yourselves in this situation. It would be wrong however to categorically say 'never' as of course things can change.

[noajthan]

Any advisor well-versed in UK immigration law and practice (and also familiar with the family-oriented culture and traditions of the applicant) should have been fully aware of the dangers of this unfortunate if not irresponsible course of action.

Suggest ditch that famous lawyer.

[indiansoninlaw]

Any advisor well-versed in UK immigration law and practice (and also familiar with the family-oriented culture and traditions of the applicant) should have been fully aware of the dangers of this unfortunate if not irresponsible course of action.

Suggest ditch that famous lawyer.

For sure!!!

But I am thinking, would it really matter if I go to another solicitor?

Even if I get the right to appeal (highly unlikely?), what are the chances that the appeal court will allow my mother-in-law to stay with us and grant her the 10 year route visa.

[Casa]

To be honest, slim to zero. Your only option is a costly Judicial Review as discussed earlier in the thread but unlikely to achieve a positive result. I believe that noajthan's point was aimed at not lining the pockets of your current solicitor any more than you already have.

[Wanderer]

Any advisor well-versed in UK immigration law and practice (and also familiar with the family-oriented culture and traditions of the applicant) should have been fully aware of the dangers of this unfortunate if not irresponsible course of action.

Suggest ditch that famous lawyer.

For sure!!!

But I am thinking, would it really matter if I go to another solicitor?

Even if I get the right to appeal (highly unlikely?), what are the chances that the appeal court will allow my mother-in-law to stay with us and grant her the 10 year route visa.

Nil I'm afraid.

Rereading back FLR(FP) was totally the wrong application to make, (I'd assumed Adult Dependent Relative Visa) bound so there's no chance of the decision being overturned as the visa is just the wrong one for these circumstances.

The 'correct' one should have been the ADR visa which unfortunately is the one with almost nil chance of being granted. This one costs over £2k and I think if ever granted, an IHS surcharge of £1k (TBH I don't know if that applies to ADR but logic says it should, just I'll wager none have been granted since the IHS was introduced).

Anecdotally, we read the only ones that have been granted are for people in need of day-to-day care who are left in a country with high costs for care and medicines, thereby making it far too expensive to fund.

Agree this solicitor seems a complete spoon.

[Casa]

In addition to Wanderer's comments...the only chance might be if your mother was too ill to travel, with the medical evidence to support this, but even then it would be a completely new application and not FLR(FP).

To give you an example of how tough this route to settlement has become, we recently had a case on the forum where the member was stuck in an Asian country caring for his elderly mother and unable to leave her while he was on visit from the UK. He had become separated from his family back in the UK with his life on hold due to his concern for his mother and the ADV application still failed.

[indiansoninlaw]

I now have the refusal letter from home office, and basically it says the application is rejected with no right to appeal, go home now.

It is dated 2nd July and says that if you don't leave withing 7 days from the receipt of the later, we will deport you. I am guessing they send their third party company capita.

This is a ROM, and a fixed price SOW will need to be prepared once we have a go ahead from you. The price on the SOW may change when we do the SOW.

I met my solicitor yesterday morning, and he has suggested that we will file for judicial review, but obviously he will charge more.

Yesterday, I met another solicitor in Central London, As commented by Wanderer, he also told me that my original solicitor made the application on wrong form. But he is suggesting to:

1. Either make a fresh application with full evidence - will cost more, as I will have to pay for the application fee + solicitor fee
2. Apparently, he will help prepare more deviance and send to home office under section 120 (no application fee, but hefty solicitor fee), and if that gets rejected, then he will request for judicial review (further solicitor + tribunal) fee.

Though I now understand that the chance for success is less, but as this could be the last time we will have my mother in law here, it may be worth the try? Apparently, they have examples who had this exact problem, and had a positive result.

Any suggestions, if this solicitor is on right track?

Also, we are worried that the 7 day period mentioned in the refusal letter has passed, and the capita people will knock on the door anytime, to arrest / take my mother in law away for deportation.

Anyone has any idea, how likely it is, in near future and when we do go ahead with this solicitor's recommendation, does that process get stopped for the time period?

[Wanderer]

Think it really depends on how much money you have to waste. As she has no current leave to remain I'm not sure any application would be valid.