Certified copies of Passport in EEA PR applications?

[victoria_2010]

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The above website states that an EU applicant for a Document Certifying Permanent Residence can submit a certified copy of their passport along with confirmation that they are happy to attend at the Home Office to show a Home Office official the original if the caseworker needs to see the original.

This would be particularly helpful for applicants who need to travel and need their passports. Has anyone tried sending a certified copy of their passport along with their EEA applications?

[LilyLalilu]

This website also says Scotland is part of England

As far as I am aware, you need to send original documents. If you need to travel either apply for a national ID card, send it with the application and keep you PP for travel or request your documents back.

[CR001]

Please refrain from posting names of companies. It is against the rules of the Forum.

[victoria_2010]

Apologies for quoting the link!

In the course of researching the issue, I found a piece of Home Office guidance called European Operational Policy Noticed (EOPN) - Issue Number 20/2012. It quotes the case of Barnett and Others (EEA Regulations: rights and documentation) Jamaica [2012] UKUT 142 (IAC) which states the following:

"... where an application has been submitted for documentation under the Regulations and the EEA national's passport or ID card has NOT been presented, caseworkers CANNOT insist on that passport/ID card being submitted unless there are good reasons for doing so."

The reasons they list are if the EEA national has never had documentation issued by the Home Office, if they have info that the EEA national is no longer in the UK, if they suspect that there is fraud involved, etc. None of these would apply to a "straightforward" PR application by an EEA national who has had a Residence Document previously issued by the Home Office and there is no information which suggests he/she has lost their EEA citizenship.

[noajthan]

And your point is?

Feel free to fight on grounds of Barnett after an initial refusal due to lack of proof of identity in an appeal which may take months or a year to arrange.
And that is after waiting perhaps 6 months to receive your refusal of DCPR.

With all the wild talk of Brexit and the 'fingers of doom relentlessly turning on the Brexit clock' (if you will) do you really want to play such games with HO?

As Lily suggests, submit bundle then simply request docs back a few weeks later.

[victoria_2010]

You may be quite right!

My ID expired last year and my Passport is the only travel document I can currently use. I have not taken a holiday for the last 2 years and am planning a last minute one at the end of this month. Hence my desire to hold on to the passport

If I postpone applying till after I return from hols (mid-September), I'm dreading the rules might change, etc. So the dilemma is whether I sacrifice a much needed holiday and apply this week or leave it for next month and hope for the best.

[noajthan]

You may be quite right!

My ID expired last year and my Passport is the only travel document I can currently use. I have not taken a holiday for the last 2 years and am planning a last minute one at the end of this month. Hence my desire to hold on to the passport

If I postpone applying till after I return from hols (mid-September), I'm dreading the rules might change, etc. So the dilemma is whether I sacrifice a much needed holiday and apply this week or leave it for next month and hope for the best.

Article 50 not triggered yet.
Most of UK government still on vacation.
Odds are nothing much going to happen in next couple of weeks!

[victoria_2010]

Good morning! Just had a thought -what would happen if I submit my PR application with certified copies of ID card and expired passport along with a cover letter explaining that:

1. I need the ID card to be able to travel this month and renew the passport.
2. The original ID card and/or new passport will be sent in due course (within 30 days).

Could this be acceptable? Or would they assess the application on the basis of the documents presented at the time of submission?

[noajthan]

Good morning! Just had a thought -what would happen if I submit my PR application with certified copies of ID card and expired passport along with a cover letter explaining that:

1. I need the ID card to be able to travel this month and renew the passport.
2. The original ID card and/or new passport will be sent in due course (within 30 days).

Could this be acceptable? Or would they assess the application on the basis of the documents presented at the time of submission?

You will most likely be refused.
HO plays hardball in this area despite Barnett.

Their current PR guidance is clear - have you checked it out yet?

Please note: we can only accept alternative evidence of your identity and nationality if you’re unable to submit a valid passport, travel document or EEA national identity card due to circumstances beyond your control

- going on lovely summer holiday does not count.

[victoria_2010]

Oh dear! Needing to travel is not just to go on overdue hols, but to renew my passport. And possibly starting a new job in October.. which I won't be able to do without ID...

My ID card and passport haven't changed for the last 6 years and the Home Office has had the originals twice - for 4+ months 2010/11 and another 4+ months in 2013. The only logical explanation why they'd need to see the originals again would be to verify I'm still an EEA citizen.

[victoria_2010]

Does anyone know how long does it take on the average from sending the PR application to actually getting your passport/ID card back?

[noajthan]

Does anyone know how long does it take on the average from sending the PR application to actually getting your passport/ID card back?

Passport retrieval is by separate request after bundle has been filed.

Record is 4 days.
Your mileage may vary.

[victoria_2010]

Great thanks!
Do I enclose two prepaid envelopes with the bundle - one to have the passport/ID card returned and the other for the bundle of docs?

[noajthan]

Member ohara is the king of passport retrieval, suggest see what he suggests.

[ohara]

Enclosing a prepaid envelope is certainly a good idea - make sure it's paid for enough weight. You could also put a note inside asking them to return your passport in it as soon as possible.

I didn't include a return envelope with my application as I never intended to ask for my passport back early. However, I needed to renew it in London and some very cheap train tickets came up at a good time, so I sent a return of documents request stating that I needed my passport urgently so I could go to London to renew it (travel already booked).

Sure enough it turned up after 4 working days in 1st class recorded post.

[victoria_2010]

Wow, 4 days is really fast! I'm weighing my options and thinking...

I haven't travelled abroad since 2014. My passport expired in November 2015. If I play ignorant and send them my expired EEA passport, would they refuse the PR application? Or simply ask for a current one?

[noajthan]

You will most likely be refused.
HO plays hardball in this area despite Barnett.

Their current PR guidance is clear - have you checked it out yet?

Please note: we can only accept alternative evidence of your identity and nationality if you’re unable to submit a valid passport, travel document or EEA national identity card due to circumstances beyond your control

- going on lovely summer holiday does not count.

Its like Groundhog day!

There are no tricks and shortcuts.
Submit valid passport.

HO does not give benefit of doubt.

Re-read the guidance.
The fact its not all compliant with EU law is irrelevant.
Caseworker will most likely just #fail you for an expired passport.

The system is indifferent to whether you then spend the next year filing an appeal.

[victoria_2010]

Just finished reading the guidance - they are indeed asking for a CURRENT passport... So will have to play by their rules.The, send them the original and request it back. Case closed