Universal Credit joint claim?

[Brainy]

Dear experts ,
I recently reported "changed of circumstances" to the local council and they asked me to apply for universal credit instead of HB . I am British be my wife is non Eu not eligible for benefits she's working 28 hrs and paid 16800/year. I have filled and submitted form for UC.
In UC joint application she has to be go through all the process as me and needs to be put under joint application . She has to even sign commitment form to report changing of any circumstance , Verify Id And attend the interviews along with me . Even she's not making or being part of the claim.

As she is not entitled for any benefit or claiming any benefit .does she has to do that ?
Customer service don't let me use single person claim as they say we are a couple and it has to be done under joint claim .this might create problem with immigration and second she needs to go to the interviews and sign even she is working and got nothing to do with the benefits .


What the best solution and advice I can get from experience people here ?
Thanks a lot

[Brainy]

Anyone plz ?

[ILR1980]

There are plenty of confusion about cases where one spouse is subject to immigration control with no recourse to public funds thats why i started this topic

http://www.immigrationboards.com/claimi ... 20066.html


Dont rely on suggestions of customer services as they often have no idea of immigration side and how benefit could impact on future leave to remain application.Now read this

How will Universal Credits treat a couple which consists of one British Citizen with
Children, and their non-EEA national partner/wife ETC who has “No Recourse to Public
Funds”.

If someone who is eligible to claim Universal Credit has a partner who is a person subject to
immigration control with no recourse to public funds, only the eligible claimant will be entitled to
an award. However the partner’s income/capital will be taken into account when assessing the
means of the whole household, and this will affect the amount of the claimant’s award.
If you have any queries about this letter please contact me quoting the reference number
above.
Yours sincerely,


DWP Freedom of Information

[Brainy]

Thnx for the input . Yes its true that universal credit is so complicated even the policy maker don't understand themsleves .
Rubbish staff with lack of common sense at customer service . Anyways I made a joint claim but had to withdraw it coz of uncertainty and advise given by citizen advise bureau . I was told I must make joint claim by customer service at universal credit But was told by citizen advise bureau that I must only make single claim by only giving my partner earning to consider .

But when I was making single claim it doesn't tick all the mandatory points for qualification . I am paused ATM
And requested the local council to look into it this and don't move me to the universal credit ATM until a clear polic regarding to this type of case is cleard . Let's see what they come up with .
Plz update us if you get more info or hear anything
Thnx again

[Petaltop]

Thnx for the input . Yes its true that universal credit is so complicated even the policy maker don't understand themsleves.

Yes they do and the details of UC are already on the interent.

It is much easier to have one income based welfare payment dealt with in one place, than having hundreds of different benefits offices all over the UK at a huge cost to the taxpayers who don't claim benefits. That system also made it easier for fruadsters.

The new system will replace 6 income based benefits and will now have the same requirment to be able to claim. All the anomalies with the income based benefits Tax Credits, will also be rectified

Rubbish staff with lack of common sense at customer service .

You don't have to claim benefits.

But when I was making single claim it doesn't tick all the mandatory points for qualification .
I am paused ATM
And requested the local council to look into it this and don't move me to the universal credit ATM until a clear polic regarding to this type of case is cleard .

I don't think you will get a choice of when you are moved onto Universal Credit. If they gave that choice then nearly everyone would opt for remaining on Tax Credits with it's , no minimum earnings required, yearly claiming and more benefit money given.

The UK's Welfare Reform Act was designed to return benefits to being a temporary help for those who are in need and end the lifestyle choice of living on benefits.

[ILR1980]

Thnx for the input . Yes its true that universal credit is so complicated even the policy maker don't understand themsleves .
Rubbish staff with lack of common sense at customer service . Anyways I made a joint claim but had to withdraw it coz of uncertainty and advise given by citizen advise bureau . I was told I must make joint claim by customer service at universal credit But was told by citizen advise bureau that I must only make single claim by only giving my partner earning to consider .

But when I was making single claim it doesn't tick all the mandatory points for qualification . I am paused ATM
And requested the local council to look into it this and don't move me to the universal credit ATM until a clear polic regarding to this type of case is cleard . Let's see what they come up with .
Plz update us if you get more info or hear anything
Thnx again

You had this " partner under immigration control " option in form when you were making joint universal credit claim?
Guideline is clear for child benefit and child tax credit/working tax credit for partners with different immigration status but this universal tax credit is bit complicated as it cover all benefits..I was told by citizen advice Bureau that you can still claim universal credit but at single rate even if you fill the form and had to put the details and income of your partner for them to get full financial picture of the family but if they would be able to give you funds at single rate then why would be asking the details of partner ..unfortunately there is one form/procedure for all applicant and its obligatory for certain funds that you put the details of your partner and children even when they have no recourse to public funds

[Brainy]

ILR1980 , yes they advised me the same . They told me to proceed with the single claim and then give my partner's earning details . They also pointed out that they are looking into these types of complicated cases . But they warned me to not make a joint claim . i would be making single claim by providing my partner details . They also sent me a screen shot of uk legislation regarding to this . it clearly says that person with non European Partner needs to make single claim .
lets see how it goes.
thanks for the reply .

[Casa]

It makes perfect sense that a couple would need to declare joint income.

For example if the spouse with access to Public funds has a very low income (or is unemployed) and the spouse who is subject to Immigration control is earning £100,000 p.a there would be no entitlement to benefits.

Entitlement to benefits can't be assessed without considering the total income in the family.

[Petaltop]

Entitlement to benefits can't be assessed without considering the total income in the family.

And joint savings.

One of the many strange things about Tax Credits was that although it is an income based welfare payment, people could have thousands in savings and still claim thousands a year with that benefit. The people working and having to pay that benefit to others via their taxes could have no savings, yet they got nothing and had to pay benefits to someone that did have savings but who didn't work enough hours to keep their family.

All the other income based benefits had a cut off of 16k in savings. Universal Credit has a cut off of 16k, which will end the claim for those who have thousands in savings.

[ILR1980]

It makes perfect sense that a couple would need to declare joint income.

For example if the spouse with access to Public funds has a very low income (or is unemployed) and the spouse who is subject to Immigration control is earning £100,000 p.a there would be no entitlement to benefits.

Entitlement to benefits can't be assessed without considering the total income in the family.

What about opposite case? It dont make any sense in cases where your partner who is subject to immigration control earn nothing then what is the point of putting spouse and children in claim especially when they say that settled partner should claim certain income and housing benefits at single rate then why ask for joint claim which is mandatory for certain benefits which make immigration status of your partner at risk

[ILR1980]

ILR1980 , yes they advised me the same . They told me to proceed with the single claim and then give my partner's earning details . They also pointed out that they are looking into these types of complicated cases . But they warned me to not make a joint claim . i would be making single claim by providing my partner details . They also sent me a screen shot of uk legislation regarding to this . it clearly says that person with non European Partner needs to make single claim .
lets see how it goes.
thanks for the reply .

Is not there only one claim form made for all ? so what is the difference in single claim or joint claim when you had to fill all details in partner section?

[Petaltop]

What about opposite case? It dont make any sense in cases where your partner who is subject to immigration control earn nothing then what is the point of putting spouse and children in claim especially when they say that settled partner should claim certain income and housing benefits at single rate then why ask for joint claim which is mandatory for certain benefits which make immigration status of your partner at risk

Because-
-It is fraud to claim as a single person when you ar not
-the partner may have savings
-the partner might start working
-under Universal Credit claims, both partners will have to earn a set amount each week. No more choosing not to earn money/not earn much money and then ask the welfare state for money.

[Brainy]

Entitlement to benefits can't be assessed without considering the total income in the family.

And joint savings.

One of the many strange things about Tax Credits was that although it is an income based welfare payment, people could have thousands in savings and still claim thousands a year with that benefit. The people working and having to pay that benefit to others via their taxes could have no savings, yet they got nothing and had to pay benefits to someone that did have savings but who didn't work enough hours to keep their family.

All the other income based benefits had a cut off of 16k in savings. Universal Credit has a cut off of 16k, which will end the claim for those who have thousands in savings.

Totally makes sense. They can consider the claim considering combine family income like council does . But a non european who's not even entitled to claim any benefits or even make an application for state benefit regardless of eligibility or not.
When an application made for UC both claimants have to sign claimants commitment and attend the interviews . However a person who's not entitled for any benefits must not be obliged to do all this. he/she has got nothing to do with benefits .

[Petaltop]

When an application made for UC both claimants have to sign claimants commitment and attend the interviews . However a person who's not entitled for any benefits must not be obliged to do all this. he/she has got nothing to do with benefits .

They are part of their partner's claim.

[ILR1980]

Because-
-It is fraud to claim as a single person when you ar not
-the partner may have savings
-the partner might start working
-under Universal Credit claims, both partners will have to earn a set amount each week. No more choosing not to earn money/not earn much money and then ask the welfare state for money.

There is no such requirement for universal tax credit that boht partner need to earn certain amount in order to qualify . I dont think you are getting the point there. I am saying there is only one procedure and one application form for all claimant irrespective of whether their partner is subject to immigration control or whether he/she is also british . They ask same details/signature from your partner which they are asking from you as main applicant and then they also tell you that immigration status of your partner could be at risk if they claim what they are not entitled too when its them who are forcing partner to give their details side by side with main applicant which create confusion about who is claiming what

[Petaltop]

I dont think you are getting the point there. I am saying there is only one procedure and one application form for all claimant irrespective of whether their partner is subject to immigration control or whether he/she is also british . They ask same details/signature from your partner which they are asking from you as main applicant and then they also tell you that immigration status of your partner could be at risk if they claim what they are not entitled too when its them who are forcing partner to give their details side by side with main applicant which create confusion about who is claiming what

It's you that doesn't get what people are telling you. When you ask for income based welfare, your household income is part of your claim. Therefore your partner is part of your claim as her salary and savings are part of your household income. As she is subject to immigration control, you cannot take benefits that she is not allowed to take.

I get that you don't like the benefit rules but nobody if forcing you to take benefits as both of you could work and provide for your own family. If you would rather have benefits, then you must follow the benefit rules and that includes not taking anything that your wife is not allowed to have.

There is no such requirement for universal tax credit that boht partner need to earn certain amount in order to qualify .

UC is based on the minimum each parent should be earning.
In order to avoid the UC conditions each parent will have to meet their earnings requirement.

Under Tax Credits they claimed once a year and didn't have to work/work much. Under UC they have to each meet a minimum earnings or else they face UC conditions: work experience, attending the Job centre and work providers,prove they are looking for work, having to attend courses etc. Everything that job seekers have to do now.

For the self employed there is a need to earn a certain amount when they are moved onto Universal Credit. Under Tax Credits their claim was based on what they earned, but under Universal Credit their claim is based on what they should be earning and not on what they do earn.

[Brainy]

I dont think you are getting the point there. I am saying there is only one procedure and one application form for all claimant irrespective of whether their partner is subject to immigration control or whether he/she is also british . They ask same details/signature from your partner which they are asking from you as main applicant and then they also tell you that immigration status of your partner could be at risk if they claim what they are not entitled too when its them who are forcing partner to give their details side by side with main applicant which create confusion about who is claiming what

It's you that doesn't get what people are telling you. When you ask for income based welfare, your household income is part of your claim. Therefore your partner is part of your claim as her salary and savings are part of your household income. As she is subject to immigration control, you cannot take benefits that she is not allowed to take.

I get that you don't like the benefit rules but nobody if forcing you to take benefits as both of you could work and provide for your own family. If you would rather have benefits, then you must follow the benefit rules and that includes not taking anything that your wife is not allowed to have.

There is no such requirement for universal tax credit that boht partner need to earn certain amount in order to qualify .

UC is based on the minimum each parent should be earning.
In order to avoid the UC conditions each parent will have to meet their earnings requirement.

Under Tax Credits they claimed once a year and didn't have to work/work much. Under UC they have to each meet a minimum earnings or else they face UC conditions: work experience, attending the Job centre and work providers,prove they are looking for work, having to attend courses etc. Everything that job seekers have to do now.

For the self employed there is a need to earn a certain amount when they are moved onto Universal Credit. Under Tax Credits their claim was based on what they earned, but under Universal Credit their claim is based on what they should be earning and not on what they do earn.

I requested experts to comments on my post and enlighten people with their knowledge who are going through similar sort of situation . Your opinion has got not weight and its all rubbish. Your are just vomiting rubbish out of your mouth on here. we talking about the glitches in the legislation which are not cleared regarding to the people who have non Eu partner. People must claim what they are entitled for. and its not a Fraud to claim UC as a single person when you not... There are exceptions in the legislation for people who are married or have partner but can claim as a single claimant .
Don't comment on my post anymore, and i would highly appreciate seniors to either block this person as wrong suggestion particular form Patel could have negative impact on once's case.

[Petaltop]

I requested experts to comments on my post and enlighten people with their knowledge who are going through similar sort of situation . Your opinion has got not weight and its all rubbish. Your are just vomiting rubbish out of your mouth on here. we talking about the glitches in the legislation which are not cleared regarding to the people who have non Eu partner.

There are no "glitches". It is very clear. You don't like the answer.

its not a Fraud to claim UC as a single person when you not.[/b]..

Then go ahead and claim as a single when you are not, and don't include your partner's savings and earnings: that is your choice. Let us know when you receive your IUC (Interview under Caution) letter for benefit fraud. Data matching is what seems to be catching most people out.

And they have changed the rules so that you can't now subtract what you should have been given from what you claimed. It all goes back, wtih a fine. If the amount owed reaches a certain point, then it is court too.

[Casa]

@Brainy Please post with respect or not at all. Abusing members simply because you don't like the advise they are giving, won't be tolerated on this forum.

As the saying goes 'If you don't like the message, don't shoot the messenger'.

[Petaltop]

@Brainy Please post with respect or not at all. Abusing members simply because you don't like the advise they are giving, won't be tolerated on this forum.

Thank you Casa but I really don't mind if the poster who calls himself "Brainy" gets it all wrong.

As the saying goes 'If you don't like the message, don't shoot the messenger'.

The Welfare Refom Act that will "make work pay", has caused quite a lot of upset with some claimants. The government always gives advance warning, so that claimants can prepare for these.

[ILR1980]

Thank you Casa but I really don't mind if the poster who calls himself "Brainy" gets it all wrong.
The Welfare Refom Act that will "make work pay", has caused quite a lot of upset with some claimants. The government always gives advance warning, so that claimants can prepare for these.

If you care to read properly before this moral policing and posting these lectures then you will understand what others are talking about. Its not frustration about getting less or no benefits. Its frustration about confusion in rules regarding certain benefits in those cases where one partner or their children subject to immigration control. There is not clear guideline for such couple as they have to apply in same way as those couple who boht are british. UKVI say one thing while those issue benefits demand something else. Claimants have no problem putting details/signature of their partners but they are hesitant because want to avoid any negative impact on future application of their dependent so they want to make sure that they only get what they are entitled too . You are acting as if all funds are going from your pocket lol

[ILR1980]

It's you that doesn't get what people are telling you. When you ask for income based welfare, your household income is part of your claim. Therefore your partner is part of your claim as her salary and savings are part of your household income. As she is subject to immigration control, you cannot take benefits that she is not allowed to take.

I get that you don't like the benefit rules but nobody if forcing you to take benefits as both of you could work and provide for your own family. If you would rather have benefits, then you must follow the benefit rules and that includes not taking anything that your wife is not allowed to have.


UC is based on the minimum each parent should be earning.
In order to avoid the UC conditions each parent will have to meet their earnings requirement.

Under Tax Credits they claimed once a year and didn't have to work/work much. Under UC they have to each meet a minimum earnings or else they face UC conditions: work experience, attending the Job centre and work providers,prove they are looking for work, having to attend courses etc. Everything that job seekers have to do now.

For the self employed there is a need to earn a certain amount when they are moved onto Universal Credit. Under Tax Credits their claim was based on what they earned, but under Universal Credit their claim is based on what they should be earning and not on what they do earn.

MR genius when you put all details of your partner side by side in same way as you put your own details then how to make this sure that you dont get any extra benefits because of putting partner and children in claim as they have no recourse to public funds..

again you have no clue about universal credit. These are eligibility criteria of UC and again there is no requirement that boht couple should be in employment earning certain amoung so dont make it complicated

To get Universal Credit you must:

be 18 or over
be under State Pension age
not be in full time education or training
not have savings over £16,000

Who isn’t eligible
You can’t claim Universal Credit if you already get:

Income Support
income-based Jobseeker’s Allowance
income-related Employment and Support Allowance
income-related Incapacity Benefit

[Brainy]

@ PATEL please refrain commenting on my post at all .

@Casa, this is an amazing forum and a lots of helpful information available.Thanks for the creator and spending valuable time on here. However , there's no abusive word to anyone .If someone doesn't give any advice thats fine however Patel came up with deliberate inaccurate information without even reading the thread . i am talking about a very specific situation in which i am going through and in a few months most of the people with non eu partner might face as legislation has changed.

The incorrect information which leads confusion and there's difference between advise and telling . advice should be given on particular issue @patel shouldn't come up with his own theories and nonsense.
Here's some information available at citizen advise bureau and i also received a copy of legislation which states that couple can claim as single if one partner is from NON EU .
CITIZEN ADVISE BUREAU WEBSITE AVAILABLE INFORMATIon.

"When to claim as a single person even if you’re part of a couple
There are a small number of cases where you need to apply for Universal Credit as a single person even though you're in a couple. You'll have to do this if your partner is in one of the following situations:

aged 16 or 17 and is not eligible for Universal Credit as an under 18 year old
not in Great Britain and not treated as in Great Britain during a temporary absence
treated as not being in Great Britain, for example, because they’ve failed the 'habitual residence test' or 'right to reside' test
a prisoner
a member of a religious order and that order pays for all their housing and living costs
temporarily not living with you and you have been or are likely to be living apart for more than 6 months
subject to immigration control
You're subject to immigration control if you:

need permission to enter or remain in the UK but don't yet have it, for example, you've applied for a visa
have permission to enter or remain in the UK only if you don't claim benefits or use other public funds, such as getting NHS treatment
were given permission to enter or remain in the UK within the last 5 years on the grounds that another person signed a maintenance undertaking agreeing to support you
If you're not sure whether to apply as a single person or couple, call the Universal Credit helpline to check.

Universal Credit helpline
Telephone: 0345 600 0723
Textphone: 0345 600 0743

Open Monday to Friday 8am - 6pm
Calls to this number can cost up to 9p a minute from a landline, or between 8p and 40p a minute from a mobile (your phone supplier can tell you how much you’ll pay) - you can call and ask them to call you back."

[Petaltop]

I don't know who this "PATEL" is, but I for one have no intention of helping you anymore "Brainy". Although I will read your thread and watch as you slowly understand the welfare reforms and realise what they will mean for you.

Even if you didn't read the Welfare Reform Bill or listen to any statements, didn't the goverment's 'we welcome people who come to the UK to give but not those who take' and their "immigration and welfare are two sides of the same coin" give you a clue to what was coming?