Living in the UK with my Vietnamese GF who is 12w pregnant

[sjrogers1]

Hello all,

My Vietnamese girlfriend who I have been with for 10 months has fallen pregnant. She has recently been studying in the U.K on a 2 year student visa (has a masters degree as a result) but has spent the last 4 months in the U.K. on a visitors visa which expires in April. We have just discovered that she is 12 weeks pregnant. We would both like to stay in the UK but do not know if this is possible.

- I am a British citizen and have lived in the U.K. since birth.
- I have been in full time employment since graduating from university 5 years ago salary is £55k
- I own my own flat and she is currently living with me at this address

We have managed to sign her up to a local GP practice and have our first meeting with the midwife on Tuesday next week.

I would really appreciate any assistance or advise that you may be able offer. We are hoping to meet a lawyer soon but if anyone has any information about the best way that my girlfriend and our baby can stay in the UK I would be very grateful,

Thank you,

Steve

[Casa]

Unfortunately your girlfriend will be unable to switch to any other visa from within the UK while here as a visitor, even if you marry.

You have the additional problem that all NHS treatment will be charged @ £150% of the cost under the Government tightening on the use of NHS facilities for overseas visitors. The cost of a straightforward birth is likely to be over £2,000 without ante-natal costs.

Do you intend to marry?
If so, at this early stage of the pregnancy it would be better for your girlfriend to return to Vietnam and apply for a fiance visa and on her return marry within 6 months and then apply for a FLR(M) Spouse visa from within the UK.
OR
Marry in Vietnam and apply for a Spouse Settlement visa from there.

As you haven't been living together in a relationship 'akin to marriage' for a minimum of 2 years you don't qualify for an Unmarried Partner Visa.

Even if you are given permission from the Home Office to marry in the UK while she is here as a visitor, it still won't be possible to switch to another category of visa from within the UK.

[sjrogers1]

Thanks Casa for your quick response.

Do you know if we were to marry, would the NHS treatment still be chargeable? I also understand that it is possible to get married on a visitor visa?

Are you aware of the standard time to process a Fiance Visa? If the baby is born in the UK, am I right in assuming that it can gain dual nationality and a full British passport?

Thanks agan

[CR001]

Thanks Casa for your quick response.

Do you know if we were to marry, would the NHS treatment still be chargeable? Yes it will be because she does not hold a visa that permits her to use the NHS for free. If any NHS charges are not paid, any future visa will likely be refused. HO definitely check and share information with the NHS.

I also understand that it is possible to get married on a visitor visa? You are required to give 28 days notice to an HO approved Registry office. This can be extended to 70 days for HO to investigate and interview each of you separately. If HO don't give approval, you cannot marry. She also does not hold a visa that permits marrying in the UK (i.e. marriage visitor visa).

Are you aware of the standard time to process a Fiance Visa? If the baby is born in the UK, It can take a few weeks/couple of months.

am I right in assuming that it can gain dual nationality and a full British passport? Even if child born in Vietname, child will still be British and entitled to a full British passport.

Thanks agan

[sjrogers1]

Thanks again Casa,

This means that the Fiance Visa does not entitle you to use the NHS for free?

Is it not possible to apply for the Fiance Visa whilst already in the UK? Would she be forced to return to Vietnam before her Visitor's Visa expires and then reapply for a Fiance Visa? If this is the case would she also have to wait for her Visitor's Visa to expire before doing so?

[CR001]

Thanks again Casa,

This means that the Fiance Visa does not entitle you to use the NHS for free? I have heard this but am not sure.

Is it not possible to apply for the Fiance Visa whilst already in the UK? No

Would she be forced to return to Vietnam before her Visitor's Visa expires and then reapply for a Fiance Visa? Yes

If this is the case would she also have to wait for her Visitor's Visa to expire before doing so? No

[sjrogers1]

Would the same process apply when going from a Fiance Visa to a Spouse Visa? (The requirement to the leave the UK to apply for the other visa).

Would the Spouse visa classify as a "Settlement Visa"? If so, the .gov website states a process time of 12 weeks, which would be a long time away from my baby if I were to not travel back to Vietnam with them.

**Edit - Additional Query**

Is the Fiance Visa that we've been referencing actually the marriage visa https://www.gov.uk/marriage-visa - If so, the website states that you must apply 3 months before travelling to the UK, so she would have to leave the UK and return in April.

[Casa]

Would the same process apply when going from a Fiance Visa to a Spouse Visa? (The requirement to the leave the UK to apply for the other visa). No need to leave the UK.

Would the Spouse visa classify as a "Settlement Visa"? If so, the .gov website states a process time of 12 weeks, which would be a long time away from my baby if I were to not travel back to Vietnam with them. Yes a settlement visa. Where in Vietnam would your girlfriend submit her application?

**Edit - Additional Query**

Is the Fiance Visa that we've been referencing actually the marriage visa https://www.gov.uk/marriage-visa - If so, the website states that you must apply 3 months before travelling to the UK, so she would have to leave the UK and return in April. No. Marriage Visitor visa is for someone who doesn't intend to settle in the UK after the wedding
You need this: https://www.gov.uk/join-family-in-uk/overview

[sjrogers1]

Thanks Casa,

Would returning to the U.K. As a fiancé be categorised as a "family visit" on the following page? https://visa-processingtimes.homeoffice ... ietnam/all

If so, it states that 100% of applicants receive responses within 10 days

[Casa]

Thanks Casa,

Would returning to the U.K. As a fiancé be categorised as a "family visit" on the following page? https://visa-processingtimes.homeoffice ... ietnam/all

If so, it states that 100% of applicants receive responses within 10 days

No, a fiance visa is a settlement visa not a visitor visa. It's this one:
https://visa-processingtimes.homeoffice ... settlement

Bear in mind these are working days.

[sjrogers1]

Thanks again for your help

[secret.simon]

Department of Health guidance for charging overseas visitors.

For non-EEA citizens, they must meet two conditions for free treatment on the NHS. They must be
a) ordinarily resident in the UK (which is a requirement for all other citizens as well, including British citizens)
b) settled in the UK, which means that they must have either ILR or PR

All other non-EEA citizens need to pay for NHS treatment, either by paying an Immigration Health Surcharge of £200 per year of the visa or by paying for the NHS treatment at 150% at the point of use.

[Casa]

Following secret.simon's clarification, it would be wise to confirm with the GP & Midwife whether there will be any charges, as your girlfriend will be ask to declare in her fiance visa application whether there are any outstanding NHS fees.

[sjrogers1]

Thank you all for your help and advice. It is likely that she will return to Vietnam in coming few weeks to apply for the Fiance Visa and then return to the UK before the pregnancy.

One final question regarding the Fiancee Visa:

We will get engaged before she leaves the UK but we are unsure as to what "evidence" we can provide to support this, is anyone aware of what kinds of evidence are normally accepted?

[vinny]

See also old guidance.

[sjrogers1]

Thanks Vinny.

I understand that we have to give notice of our intention to marry to a registrar at a designated register office before the marriage takes place. As we are planning to get married once my fiancee returns on a "fiance / family settlement visa) do we have to wait until she has this new VISA before giving notice?

I'm wondering if it will help her Fiancee / Settlement VISA application if we can provide evidence that we have given notice to get married? (even if we do not intend to get married until much later on in the year)

[Casa]

You're unlikely to be able to give notice until your fiancee is back in the UK with the correct visa. If you register your intent to marry before she leaves the UK it may actually complicate the situation as the Registrar might notify the Home Office who could then request you both attend an interview, by which time your fiancee would have left the UK.

You could however, submit evidence that you have enquired with the Registrar about availability of dates for the civil ceremony.

[sjrogers1]

Thanks again Casa,

Do you think receipt of wedding rings can help?

Also, do you think we should actually disclose that my Fiancee is pregnant? Do you think this will help or hinder our case?

[Obie]

You have to possibly brace yourself for the possibility that your child may have to be born in Vietnam, if she decides to leave.

At present Entry Clearance application are taking about 4 months ,and even if she succeed, she us likely to be heavily pregnant before the visa is issued.

[sjrogers1]

Thanks Obie,

It is indeed a very real possibility, however in the meantime we must try our best to succeed with the application. On the .gov website (https://visa-processingtimes.homeoffice ... settlement) it is stating that "Most applications are processed within 60 days." and the table states that 100% are processed with this time. However, it is noted that "actual processing times may vary depending on a range of factors." Assuming that "days" is working days, this equates to 12 weeks + public holidays, so say 13 weeks to be on the safe side.

- We expect that she can submit the application by hand in Hanoi no later than February 19th.
- The latest date that Vietnamese Airlines will accept a pregnant passenger is "32 weeks pregnant"
- My Fiancee is currently 14 weeks and 2 days pregnant (based on a measurement from the 12 week scan). - This means that the latest date she can fly back to the UK is 21st May, this is 13 weeks from theoretical application submission.

It's all very tight, and if indeed it takes 4 months then we have no chance. If it comes to it then I would have to temporarily suspend my job and fly to Vietnam for the birth, hopefully get VISA approval shortly after before returning to the UK for the marriage and subsequent Spouse settlement. I will be compiling a list of all the documents that we intend to submit within the application shortly, we would both greatly appreciate any help and assistance that you (collective) are able to provide.

On another note I think we will have to declare the pregnancy as it will need to be disclosed as part of the Tuberculosis test. Do you think this will help express the urgency of the case or make no difference at all? I hope it does not complicate the decision process further.

[sjrogers1]

Following up from my previous message, I have produced a list of documentation that we plan on submitting as part of the application, would you please be so kind as to have a quick review of the list and let me know if there is anything that you think is missing or not necessary to provide?

For Clarity - I am the Sponsor.
(CC) = Certified Copy, (O) = Original

Visa Application Details
⦁ VAF4A Form
• VAF4A Appendix 2 Form
• Sponsors VISA Appointment Booking
• VISA Fee Receipt

Supporting Documents
⦁ Applicants covering letter, including proposed itinerary
⦁ Applicants return flight with flexible return date (as she is currently in the UK on Visit Visa but leaving soon)
• Applicants Birth Certificate (O)
• Applicants Passport (O)
• Applicants House hold book (O)
• Applicants Degree Certificate from University of the West of England and Master (O)
• Applicants Passport Photo (O)
• Sponsors Passport Photo (O)
⦁ Sponsors Birth Certificate (O)
⦁ Sponsors Passport (CC)
⦁ Sponsors Old Passports (O)
⦁ Evidence of Joint bank account (Credit Card)
⦁ Evidence of Joint bank account (Current Account)
⦁ Tuberculosis test results (O)

Financial Information
⦁ Letter from Sponsor's Employer (Letter of Employment)
⦁ Employment Contract (O)
• Sponsors Payslips x 12 months (O)
• Sponsors P60 for last 4 years (O)
• Sponsors Bank Statements x 6 months (O)

Proof of Relationship (Fiancee)
⦁ Covering Letter
⦁ Photos of Applicant and sponsor
• Email Correspondents (we don't have many)
• Facebook Chat log
• Whattsapp Chat log
• Sponsors Phone Statement x 12 months (O)
• Applicants Phone Statements x 6 months (O)
• Letter from Applicants Previous Landlord in UK (confirming when she moved out)
• Letter from Sponsor (confirming date when she moved in with me)
• Applicants bank statement (with our shared address on it)
• Tickets for Trips that we both made to Vietnam earlier last year
• Sponsors VISA to Vietnam for visits mentioned above (CC)
• Wedding venue booking confirmation emails (Hopefully we can provisionally book without posting official notice)
• Wedding Rings Receipt (O) iv.
⦁ Letter confirming both parties are free to marry

Accommodation
• Letter from Sponsor confirming that Applicant is welcome to live with me on her return, no rent or bills to be payable
• HM Land Registry Documents (O)
• 1 x Utility Bill (O)
• 1 x Council Tax Bill (O)
• Mortgage Statement x 6 (O)
• House Photos and dimensions (from estate agent when I bought the property)

Proof of Pregnancy - Not sure whether its worth including these
• Letter from Hospital following the 12 week scan (C)
• 12 week scan photo with Applicants Name & Hospital Address included
• NHS Pregnancy "pack"

Many thanks,

Steve

[CR001]

Are you/she paying for all her NHS treatment/visits/scans?

[sjrogers1]

We have notified the midwife and are awaiting further instructions.

[CR001]

Any outstanding NHS charges of more than £500 will affect a visa application from abroad. HO does check this.

[sjrogers1]

Thanks, I have called today, our bill was less than the £500 but I've paid it off anyway to ensure we are above board.

Do you have any comments on our list of proposed documentation?