Help with VAF4A Form

[Ruislip]

Hello,

Just to explain my situation in brief.

My fiancee is a non-EU citizen. We met over 2 and a half years ago in her home country. Last year she visited the UK on a short stay student visa for 6 months and this year on two consecutive 6 month visitor visas. She has lived with me on every occasion. We have decided to get married and now we are in the process of organising everything before she goes back to apply for a marriage visa in her home country. Her flight back home is already booked for the end of February.

She believes that it will strengthen our case when applying for the Marriage Visa if we have already Given Notice to Marry here at a Register Office in the UK. We have both done our research and it is legal for a a non-EU citizen to give notice to marry a UK citizen at a UK Register Office whilst on a Visitor Visa. However, the Home Office can extend the mandatory 28 day notice period to a further 70 day notice period at their discretion. This is done because registrars must refer all proposed marriages and civil partnerships involving a non-EEA national with limited or no immigration status in the UK to the HO. The HO then can extend the notice period to 70 days in order to identify any 'sham' marriages. This 70 day notice period would extend far beyond the period my fiancee will be in the UK.

What most concerns me is this: "Couples who fail to comply with an investigation under a 70 day notice period will not be able to marry or form a civil partnership on the basis of that notice".

Therefore, my concerns are the following:

1) If the HO does extend the notice period to 70 days, will it jeopardise our chances of being allowed to finally get married in the UK if my fiancee is not in the country for 6 of those 10 weeks of extended notice? i.e. if they wish to speak to us in person, will it be seen as non-compliance if my fiancee (totally legally and without overstaying her Visa - I must add) has already returned home in order to start the application process for the marriage visa?
Or will it just show that we are committed to the process and are following the legal and logical steps of marrying a foreign national in the UK - bearing in mind I will have a copy of all the documentation that my Fiancee will use to make her Marriage Visa application abroad as proof for the Home Office?

2) Do you think it would strengthen my fiancee's Marriage Visa application significantly to have already Given Notice in the UK before she returns home, or is it just an unnecessary added complication?

We want to make our Marriage Visa application as compelling as possible so that it is accepted first time. However, we don't want to accidentally shoot ourselves in the foot by over complicating an already difficult and expensive process.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

[CR001]

By 'marriage visa' do you mean the 'marriage visit visa' or the 'fiance visa'? They are very different and costs are substantially different too.

She needs to be in the UK if asked to attend an interview. Giving notice now seems pointless considering she is leaving the UK next month.

Last year she visited the UK on a short stay student visa for 6 months and this year on two consecutive 6 month visitor visas. She has lived with me on every occasion.

How long has she actually been 'residing' in the UK on these visa statuses? By 'last year' do you mean 2015 and by 'this year' do you mean 2016?

[Ruislip]

By marriage visa i mean Fiancee Visa - as in she has the intention of remaining in the UK after we are married.

She has been in the UK for 6 months in 2015 and from March of 2016 until now.

Why would it be pointless to Give Notice before she leaves?

[CR001]

By marriage visa i mean Fiancee Visa - as in she has the intention of remaining in the UK after we are married.

She has been in the UK for 6 months in 2015 and from March of 2016 until now. So residing and not visiting. What is her nationality? She should not be spending more time in the UK than she does in her home country.

Why would it be pointless to Give Notice before she leaves? Highly likely the notice period is extended to 70 days, some people have waited 90 days before being called for an interview, separately. Giving notice before applying for a fiance visa has no bearing on the outcome of the fiance visa application.

[Ruislip]

"So residing and not visiting. What is her nationality? She should not be spending more time in the UK than she does in her home country."

She has been here on 2 consecutive visitor visas. We were a bit lucky in that we left and re-entered the UK at the end of the first 6 month period (Sep 2016) and she was given an additional 6 months. She has not over-stayed her visa at anytime.

What do you mean by "She should not be spending more time in the UK than she does in her home country"?

Also "Giving notice before applying for a fiance visa has no bearing on the outcome of the fiance visa application".

What does have a bearing on the outcome of the Fiance Visa Application? What must we do/provide to ensure we are successful?

Many thanks for your help btw!

[CR001]

What do you mean by "She should not be spending more time in the UK than she does in her home country"? She is effectively 'living' in the UK on a 'visitor visa', and effectively 'circumventing the immigration rules' if her aim is to settle by applying for a fiance visa. This is not permitted. She should not be spending more than 180 days out of a 12 month cycle in the UK. It is not the same as 'overstaying' without a valid visa. Does she get a visit visa on arrival? What is her nationality?

Also "Giving notice before applying for a fiance visa has no bearing on the outcome of the fiance visa application".

What does have a bearing on the outcome of the Fiance Visa Application? What must we do/provide to ensure we are successful? You need to meet the requirements of the visa, financial, English, accommodation, evidence of wedding preparations, evidence of relationship, etc.

Many thanks for your help btw!

[Ruislip]

What do you mean by "She should not be spending more time in the UK than she does in her home country"? She is effectively 'living' in the UK on a 'visitor visa', and effectively 'circumventing the immigration rules' if her aim is to settle by applying for a fiance visa. This is not permitted. She should not be spending more than 180 days out of a 12 month cycle in the UK. It is not the same as 'overstaying' without a valid visa. Does she get a visit visa on arrival? What is her nationality?
My fiancee is from Brazil and she is given an automatic 6 month visitor visa when she comes into the UK.We explained when we re-entered the UK in September that we needed more time to prepare everything before our wedding and the officer warned us but still gave her an additional 6 months. We were not told about this 180 days of a 12 month cycle rule. Are you suggesting my Fiancee will not be granted a fiancee visa based on this fact?

Also "Giving notice before applying for a fiance visa has no bearing on the outcome of the fiance visa application".

What does have a bearing on the outcome of the Fiance Visa Application? What must we do/provide to ensure we are successful? You need to meet the requirements of the visa, financial, English, accommodation, evidence of wedding preparations, evidence of relationship, etc.
What evidence of wedding preparations can we provide without Giving Notice?I know we can book a venue, but is there anything else we can do?

Many thanks for your help btw!

[CR001]

and the officer warned us but still gave her an additional 6 months.

There will likely be a record of this now. It should not affect the fiance visa application but the application might come under more scrutiny.

What evidence of wedding preparations can we provide without Giving Notice?I know we can book a venue, but is there anything else we can do?

Invitation design, menu planning, if an all inclusive venue, a detailed quote. Receipt for engagement ring. Photos from engagement party.

[bathanza]

When you lodge notice, you will be given a declaration of immigration status form. This form, and the registrar, need to know when you will marry or if a marriage date is set, so have this decided before you lodge notice.

This immigration form will state:

"I have a marriage visit visa or fiancé visa (relevant visa) for the purpose of enabling me to marry in the United Kingdom. If you select this statement you must provide details of the evidence submitted with your notice to show you hold a marriage visit visa or fiancé visa – see section F below."

If you are able to ask your fiancé to leave the UK and apply for this visa, it'll help your matter and not have the 70 day notice. BUT, if the registrar suspects a sham, you will be referred.

The 70 notice is enforced by the Home Office if the registrar suspects a Sham marriage. This is an automated notification and you are required to follow the steps outlined in the notification. Firstly, you are required to provide a contact email and telephone number for investigation.

IFthey choose to investigate, you MAY be required to give evidence of your relationship or you MAY be interviewed.

If you lodge notice now, and your fiancé leaves, you may not be compliant IF they CHOOSE to interview you and she is not available to attend the interview. Again, it MAY happen, not in all case.

If you are able to stick to the rules and ensure that you have the correct immigration status, you won't have issues like many people do. She is on a visit visa so therefore switching to a spousal may be difficult in country, but outside you'll be fine.

P.S - There are detailed statistics from the government site that will give you an idea of how many sham marriage referrals there are vs how many are investigated too. Knowledge can be powerful

[Ruislip]

Bathanza, thank you.

But where are these detailed statistics you speak of?

I am still inferring from what you said that you think it is best to avoid the potential risks and wait to Give Notice once my fiance has returned with her fiancee visa?

[CR001]

I am still inferring from what you said that you think it is best to avoid the potential risks and wait to Give Notice once my fiance has returned with her fiancee visa? Yes, this would be the best option as she does not hold a visa that permits marriage at present.

[Ruislip]

Another query I have is, although I do meet the minimum financial requirements to get married, I don't have a huge amount of extra money to spend on a wedding etc.

Will our application be looked on less favourably if the evidence we have for our engagement and ceremony are not very expensive?

e.g. cheap ring, registry office, small reception etc?

[CR001]

Will our application be looked on less favourably if the evidence we have for our engagement and ceremony are not very expensive

No, that would be discriminatory.

[bathanza]

Bathanza, thank you.

But where are these detailed statistics you speak of?

I am still inferring from what you said that you think it is best to avoid the potential risks and wait to Give Notice once my fiance has returned with her fiancee visa?

Check the site https://www.gov.uk/government/collectio ... ly-release

Also there has been specific releases on Sham marriages.

As per advise from the mod, yes, give notice as appropriately when you have the correct visa

[bathanza]

Another query I have is, although I do meet the minimum financial requirements to get married, I don't have a huge amount of extra money to spend on a wedding etc.

Will our application be looked on less favourably if the evidence we have for our engagement and ceremony are not very expensive?

e.g. cheap ring, registry office, small reception etc?

Please remember, a marriage is held as such an important step in any relationship, if you choose to have a simple ceremony, or a large one, it is your RIGHT to do whatever you want to in terms of celebration, how big or small you choose to have it. (my brother turned up in flip flops and wife 8 months pregnant in the Civil Marriage as they chose to do it this way - they are both British by the way nothing to do with immigration!).

You should not allow the thoughts of investigation to ruin your day. However, I would advise you to KEEP all relevant information, bookings, receipts, photos of moments. It is up to the HO to provide evidence to go against you, and if your relationship is real, there is nothing to worry about. There is some guidance and some interview questions that I can help with to help prep up IF you are interviewed.

In your circumstances, just have evidence written, printed, saved and look forward to planning for a wedding.

I'll update my post REF sham marriage notification by end of the month.

[Ruislip]

Hello,

My fiancee and I are currently completing the application for her Fiancee Visa. She is currently visiting me in the UK and is planning to return home at the end of February.

There is a section which requires you to submit the last 5 visits to the UK. However, it will not allow you to put in a date in the future. How should we complete this information if my fiancee is still in the UK?

Should we try to explain it in the comment section/

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[Ruislip]

Hello,

My fiancee and I are in the process of organising all of the docs she will need before she goes back home to apply for her fiancee visa. Her flight is at the end of Feb. She is currently visiting me on a Visitor's Visa.

As part of the application, and also because we want to have everything organised as soon as possible, we wanted to book a room at our local Registry Office. We thought it would greatly strengthen our application if we had concrete evidence showing that we had already confirmed a date and location to get married.

V annoyingly the Register office in question is particularly non-responsive by phone. When I emailed about this I was told I could not book any of the suites until I had arranged to Give Notice. My understanding of the situation is that:

if we Give Notice before my fiancee goes home, then, due to the fact my fiancee is here on a Visitor's Visa, our notice period will be extended automatically to 70 days and referred to the HO. The HO then have the right to investigate the legitimacy of our relationship and may want to interview us. My fiancee will have already left the country by this time and would be in the process of applying for the fiancee visa in her home country. I am concerned that the HO would find an issue with her absence.

My questions are therefore:

1) Am I being over-sensitive? Do you think if I explain the chicken and egg situation of booking a wedding date and giving notice then the Ho will be understanding?
2) Is there a way I can book a date to get married without Giving Notice first?

All of your help will be greatly appreciated!

[CR001]

1. You're being oversensitive. Do the Registery process when she returns on the fiance visa and she is physically in the country.

2. You don't need a confirmed date for a fiance visa. You also need to follow the Registry process etc. to give notice and both of you need to be in the UK.

[Ruislip]

I have heard about some registry offices allowing provisional bookings.

Is this a good idea?

What else can I organise in order to show we are committed to getting married?

many thanks!

[CR001]

Yes, provisional booking will work.

Invitations, ring receipts, dress/suite receipts, photographer booking etc

[Ruislip]

Hello,

I am a British citizen. My fiancee is from non-EU.

She has visited me 3 times on a visitor visa and each time she has lived with me, where I have taken financial responsibility for her. We are applying for her Fiancee Visa.

In the Financial Requirement Appendix Form of VAF 4A it has:

Q 1.16 If you are an unmarried or same sex partner, have you been in a relationship akin to marriage or a civil partnership with your sponsor?

Q 1.17 Provide details of how long you have been in a relationship akin to marriage or a civil partnership with your sponsor

Q 1.19 Have you lived with your sponsor in a relationship akin to marriage or a civil partnership at any time? (if yes please provide details)

She has stayed with me for over a year in total during these visits, but obviously she has not got much documentary evidence to prove this and I am not sure if this is what the questions are getting at.

She has mail addressed to her at my UK address, but no bills or apartment contracts because she was only visiting me each time. I am not sure if I should say No for 1.16 and 1.19 - as she was only visiting me each time (albeit for extended periods) or yes and then explain the details of her visits to the UK.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[Casa]

You've misunderstood. This is referring to an application as an Unmarried Partner which requires 2 years of co-habitation, not a fiance visa.

[Ruislip]

But my fiancée has to complete this form as part of her application. So do we just put no for both of these questions?

[Casa]

But my fiancée has to complete this form as part of her application. So do we just put no for both of these questions?

Yes, as it doesn't apply to you.

[Ruislip]

Hello,

When submitting the application for the Fiancee Visa. my fiancee has to submit 6 months of my bank statements.

1) What is this for?

2) If there are entries into my account from a 3rd party with the name of my fiancee on them e.g. £220 for Alice. Will I need to explain these entries?

Many thanks for the help!