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Moderators: Casa, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, CR001, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix
I agree Surinder Singh 2016 regulations are illegal. But I am surprised people are taking it and the refusals. I cannot think of any other regulations been applied so sneakily in contradiction of EU law. Its not just Eind but the other conditions in Surinder Singh. Home office should stop the hypocrisy. They should imply it properly or should not apply at all.greatscott wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:11 amUnder SS, there is no need for you to have worked according to Eind case law. No-one on this forum, on any government web site, or anywhere in the public domain can prove that Eind law has been overturned. Therefore it still applies.
What the UK government is trying to do since 25 November 2016, is illegal.
Obie , please may I know are you quoting Article 48 from the EC 2004 directive. I can't find the Article 48.Obie wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:49 pmFor the purpose of people relying under Article 21 of the Treaty to return home, it will be necessary for them to show that they are continuing to work or self sufficient upon their return. However people who rely under Article 48 may not have to show that, in light of EInd.
Well we have recently appealed and our case is the perfect case to appeal Eind, because their refusal to grant EEA(PR) is for one reason only, the "BC not being a qualified person". So crowdfund our appeal.gillacious_505 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:43 pmI agree Surinder Singh 2016 regulations are illegal. But I am surprised people are taking it and the refusals. I cannot think of any other regulations been applied so sneakily in contradiction of EU law. Its not just Eind but the other conditions in Surinder Singh. Home office should stop the hypocrisy. They should imply it properly or should not apply at all.greatscott wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:11 amUnder SS, there is no need for you to have worked according to Eind case law. No-one on this forum, on any government web site, or anywhere in the public domain can prove that Eind law has been overturned. Therefore it still applies.
What the UK government is trying to do since 25 November 2016, is illegal.
I am surprised why there is no legal challenge to Surinder Singh regulations 2016 so far. People should crowdfund the legal challenge and should not let HO bully us which seems to be their habit these days.
Until it is done we all have to tolerate these unlawful refusals.
No, cant guarantee the british government will follow the rule of law but cant see why the courts won't. 2 weeks before we appealed there was a british court ruling confirming Eind.Clairenaz wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:01 amSo do you think I will be okay and the last three years will count or should I be worried ? And try and think of alternative arrangements for my Mum Dad husband and kids and find a work and not care for them anymore? I’m so confused I do t know what to do I’m so worried.
Thank you for everyone’s replies
Thanks, it would need to be a coordinated group effort headed by someone who understands crowdfunding. Set up a trust of some sort, then use the funds to help vulnerable applicants. I think thats how the majority of suspect applications make it, they form groups who look out for each other, with enough money to employ good lawyers/barristers.
I'm British and I find that comment somewhat dearly beloved.greatscott wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:25 amNo, cant guarantee the british government will follow the rule of law but cant see why the courts won't. 2 weeks before we appealed there was a british court ruling confirming Eind.Clairenaz wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:01 amSo do you think I will be okay and the last three years will count or should I be worried ? And try and think of alternative arrangements for my Mum Dad husband and kids and find a work and not care for them anymore? I’m so confused I do t know what to do I’m so worried.
Thank you for everyone’s replies
But you know the legacy of the British the world over they make it up as they go along, deception is the name of the game....unfortunately. You will have to decide for yourself. No-one on this forum seems to know how to interpret the british interpretations!!!!!!!
I'm British too and trace my ancestors back to 1600 Northumberland...perhaps the reason for being very outspoken about this nonsense !! When they brexit and leave the EU let them change whatever they want, but until then follow the law!!Wanderer wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:14 pmI'm British and I find that comment somewhat dearly beloved.greatscott wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:25 amNo, cant guarantee the british government will follow the rule of law but cant see why the courts won't. 2 weeks before we appealed there was a british court ruling confirming Eind.Clairenaz wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:01 amSo do you think I will be okay and the last three years will count or should I be worried ? And try and think of alternative arrangements for my Mum Dad husband and kids and find a work and not care for them anymore? I’m so confused I do t know what to do I’m so worried.
Thank you for everyone’s replies
But you know the legacy of the British the world over they make it up as they go along, deception is the name of the game....unfortunately. You will have to decide for yourself. No-one on this forum seems to know how to interpret the british interpretations!!!!!!!
I typed r-a-c-i-s-t! Seems the word filter is r-a-c-i-s-t! Dearly beloved my arse, wonder if it changes 'bacon' to 'unclean infidel food'?greatscott wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:44 pmI'm British too and trace my ancestors back to 1600 Northumberland...perhaps the reason for being very outspoken about this nonsense !! When they brexit and leave the EU let them change whatever they want, but until then follow the law!!Wanderer wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:14 pmI'm British and I find that comment somewhat dearly beloved.greatscott wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:25 amNo, cant guarantee the british government will follow the rule of law but cant see why the courts won't. 2 weeks before we appealed there was a british court ruling confirming Eind.Clairenaz wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:01 amSo do you think I will be okay and the last three years will count or should I be worried ? And try and think of alternative arrangements for my Mum Dad husband and kids and find a work and not care for them anymore? I’m so confused I do t know what to do I’m so worried.
Thank you for everyone’s replies
But you know the legacy of the British the world over they make it up as they go along, deception is the name of the game....unfortunately. You will have to decide for yourself. No-one on this forum seems to know how to interpret the british interpretations!!!!!!!
r.a.c.i.s.t is auto filtered to say 'dearly beloved'. We have many laughs when reading postsgreatscott wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:58 pmhilarious!
Don't know what the whiff of beloved was, but anyhooo....have a great day!
Lol, r-a-c-i-s-t= beloved...good one mods
Have you got one for 'Trump'?CR001 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:08 pmr.a.c.i.s.t is auto filtered to say 'dearly beloved'. We have many laughs when reading postsgreatscott wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:58 pmhilarious!
Don't know what the whiff of beloved was, but anyhooo....have a great day!
Lol, r-a-c-i-s-t= beloved...good one mods
I can think of a few but might get firedWanderer wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:09 pmHave you got one for 'Trump'?CR001 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:08 pmr.a.c.i.s.t is auto filtered to say 'dearly beloved'. We have many laughs when reading postsgreatscott wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:58 pmhilarious!
Don't know what the whiff of beloved was, but anyhooo....have a great day!
Lol, r-a-c-i-s-t= beloved...good one mods
I got one for Trump. Its huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge .lolWanderer wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:09 pmHave you got one for 'Trump'?CR001 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:08 pmr.a.c.i.s.t is auto filtered to say 'dearly beloved'. We have many laughs when reading postsgreatscott wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:58 pmhilarious!
Don't know what the whiff of beloved was, but anyhooo....have a great day!
Lol, r-a-c-i-s-t= beloved...good one mods
Not 'Bigly'?gillacious_505 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:26 pmI got one for Trump. Its huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge .lolWanderer wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:09 pmHave you got one for 'Trump'?CR001 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:08 pmr.a.c.i.s.t is auto filtered to say 'dearly beloved'. We have many laughs when reading postsgreatscott wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:58 pmhilarious!
Don't know what the whiff of beloved was, but anyhooo....have a great day!
Lol, r-a-c-i-s-t= beloved...good one mods
It doesn't rewrite Eind.mkhan2525 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:34 pmBack on topic. How does one rely on Article 45 when O and B Netherlands more or less rewrites Singh and earlier case law?
In paragraph 54 of O and B the CJEU courts underlying objective was not to deter the EU nationals movement. The UK regulations as they are currently have the effect of detering a national from moving or returning to the member state of origin by creating uncertainy. For example there may be a situation where one is not able to work or where despite trying to find work they are unable to. Surely this is what the court in Eind was seeking to avoid hence Eind is not overturned?
It's clear from numerous case law, the CJEU court has always given significant weight to family life of EU nationals.
(Extracts above from case note 13: 383–399, 2017 in the ‘European Constitutional Law Review’, with the author’s permission).In July 2016, the EFTA Court issued a judgment on the circumstances under which EEA law provides for a derived right of residence in the home member state of an EEA national for the third-country national family member of that EEA national, specifically when that EEA national has returned from residing in another EEA state as an economically inactive person. In this, the Court was adding its own translation into EEA law (at least as it applies to the EFTA states, the three member states of the EEA that do not belong to the EU: Norway, Liechtenstein and Iceland) onto a veritable tower of case law from the European Court of Justice, its EU counterpart, starting with Surinder Singh, going on to Eind, and most recently restated in O&B…
... Groenendijk places the ambiguous consideration in its context: the fact that the EFTA Court so closely followed Eind in its decision must also mean that one of the key considerations of that decision applies (either because the EFTA Court meant it to apply, or in spite of the fact that the EFTA Court did not mean it to apply). And specifically: that since the right of the EU citizen (in that case) to return to his own member state after making use of the freedom of movement of workers is unconditional, the derived right of residence of his family member must also not be conditional on whether the EU citizen continues to work or not. The fact that in Jabbi and O&B, the Directive has been declared to be applicable ‘by analogy’ to that derived right of residence upon return cannot be read to mean that the provisions of the Directive also apply concerning any conditions that the EEA national has to satisfy in her home state…
… The EFTA Court may do its best to keep up the appearance of only construing rights from the classic economic freedoms of the Community that the EEA inherited at its genesis, for instance by basing its express considerations on Eind. But even in Eind, EU citizenship palpably lurks under the surface as an important addition to the fundamental freedoms. In reality, the freedom of economically inactive EEA nationals to return to their home states with their third-country national family members is not construed out of the dualistic will of the EFTA states to adopt Directive 2004/38 (if it had been, the Court would have declared the Directive to actually apply), but is anchored in a legal basis in primary law: the independence of the EFTA Court to enforce the principle of homogeneity with EU law. And that legal basis, as much as the EFTA Court may not want to admit it, provides a necessary simulacrum in EEA law for Article 21(1) TFEU and the EU citizenship that EU law has developed and that EEA nationals do not have.