Comprehensive Sickness Insurance: Residence Permit Application

[nordsee]

Hi all,

I'd like to learn about any recent changes in following case:

1) EEA National: Full-time student, self sufficient. Needs to obtain Registration certificate and therefore CSI
2) Non-EEA spouse. Working full time.

It is clear that the EEA National needs CSI, but does this also apply to the non-EEA spouse, since she is working full time?

3) The EEA national is in the UK for less than three months, so CSI should not be necessary for the EEA family permit, right?

Thanks for any insights.

Best wishes

nordsee

[Hstepper07]

The CSI is for both of you if your sponsor is a student or self sufficient. Your employment does not change anything.
You require CSI for family permit

[nordsee]

CSI for a family permit?

it states here https://www.gov.uk/family-permit/docume ... st-provide that the right of residence of the EEA national has only to be proven if in the UK for more than 3 months

It is also not mentioned in the list of supporting documents

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... permit.pdf

Does anyone has experience in this matter?

[Hstepper07]

You have to prove to home office that you are exercising treaty right when you send in your application if you have intention of staying for more than 3 months. In your case, you need csi to be a qualified person.
My first application for RC was sent in the 1st month of my initial right of residence. My application was refused 4 months later because my sponsor did not register with job centre but was applying for jobs.

[nordsee]

You have to prove to home office that you are exercising treaty right when you send in your application if you have intention of staying for more than 3 months. In your case, you need csi to be a qualified person.
My first application for RC was sent in the 1st month of my initial right of residence. My application was refused 4 months later because my sponsor did not register with job centre but was applying for jobs.

Thank you for the insight information!

But you are talking about the residence card, not the EEA FP, correct?

[Hstepper07]

You have to prove to home office that you are exercising treaty right when you send in your application if you have intention of staying for more than 3 months. In your case, you need csi to be a qualified person.
My first application for RC was sent in the 1st month of my initial right of residence. My application was refused 4 months later because my sponsor did not register with job centre but was applying for jobs.

Thank you for the insight information!

But you are talking about the residence card, not the EEA FP, correct?

Getting confused. I am working on the fact that in original post, you said you are thinking of getting reg certficate and your UK spouse is working FT which means that you are both here. If this is the case, you should be applying for reg cert/card and both need CSI
If your partner is abroad, only you will need CSI for the FP as partner is not here.

[KID1413]

You have to prove to home office that you are exercising treaty right when you send in your application if you have intention of staying for more than 3 months. In your case, you need csi to be a qualified person.
My first application for RC was sent in the 1st month of my initial right of residence. My application was refused 4 months later because my sponsor did not register with job centre but was applying for jobs.

Thank you for the insight information!

But you are talking about the residence card, not the EEA FP, correct?

Getting confused. I am working on the fact that in original post, you said you are thinking of getting reg certficate and your UK spouse is working FT which means that you are both here. If this is the case, you should be applying for reg cert/card and both need CSI
If your partner is abroad, only you will need CSI for the FP as partner is not here.

Why does she also need CSI when she's already working full time here? I thought CSI was only for self sufficient or students.

I am in a similar situation. I am an EEA student and she's a non EEA employee currently working full time. I need CSI (European Health insurance card or private) but she shouldn't need it if we intent to apply for EEA QP for me and EEA FM for her.

[Hstepper07]

The employment for Non EEA national is irrelevant for exercising treaty.
The only thing that matters is that the EEA sponsor is exercising treaty right either as a worker, jobseeker, self employed person, self sufficient person and student.
The last 2 require CSI for both EEA national and family member.

[KID1413]

The employment for Non EEA national is irrelevant for exercising treaty.
The only thing that matters is that the EEA sponsor is exercising treaty right either as a worker, jobseeker, self employed person, self sufficient person and student.
The last 2 require CSI for both EEA national and family member.

All right, thanks for the clarification.

Just to be out of doubts, you mean that employment is irrelevant for the EEA FM even if she's employed in the UK on a Tier 2 Visa with a employer that actually offers her private medical insurance on top of the NHS?

Thanks!

[Hstepper07]

The employment for Non EEA national is irrelevant for exercising treaty.
The only thing that matters is that the EEA sponsor is exercising treaty right either as a worker, jobseeker, self employed person, self sufficient person and student.
The last 2 require CSI for both EEA national and family member.

All right, thanks for the clarification.

Just to be out of doubts, you mean that employment is irrelevant for the EEA FM even if she's employed in the UK on a Tier 2 Visa with a employer that actually offers her private medical insurance on top of the NHS?

Thanks!

As long as it is comprehensive. See below from Homeoffice guidance for staff: - European Economic Area nationals: qualified persons
Comprehensive sickness insurance
This pages defines comprehensive sickness insurance (CSI) and explains which
European Economic Area (EEA) nationals and their family members must hold it.
You can accept an EEA national or their family member as having CSI if they hold
any form of insurance that will cover the costs of the majority of medical treatment
they may receive in the UK.
You must take a proportionate approach when you consider if an insurance policy is
comprehensive. For example, a policy may contain certain exemptions but if the
policy covers the applicant for medical treatment in the majority of circumstances you
can accept it.
The definition of CSI does not include:
• cash back health schemes, such as:
o dental
o optical
o prescription charges
• travel insurance policies
• access to the UK’s NHS

This is all you get for CSI

[KID1413]

The employment for Non EEA national is irrelevant for exercising treaty.
The only thing that matters is that the EEA sponsor is exercising treaty right either as a worker, jobseeker, self employed person, self sufficient person and student.
The last 2 require CSI for both EEA national and family member.

All right, thanks for the clarification.

Just to be out of doubts, you mean that employment is irrelevant for the EEA FM even if she's employed in the UK on a Tier 2 Visa with a employer that actually offers her private medical insurance on top of the NHS?

Thanks!

As long as it is comprehensive. See below from Homeoffice guidance for staff: - European Economic Area nationals: qualified persons
Comprehensive sickness insurance
This pages defines comprehensive sickness insurance (CSI) and explains which
European Economic Area (EEA) nationals and their family members must hold it.
You can accept an EEA national or their family member as having CSI if they hold
any form of insurance that will cover the costs of the majority of medical treatment
they may receive in the UK.
You must take a proportionate approach when you consider if an insurance policy is
comprehensive. For example, a policy may contain certain exemptions but if the
policy covers the applicant for medical treatment in the majority of circumstances you
can accept it.
The definition of CSI does not include:
• cash back health schemes, such as:
o dental
o optical
o prescription charges
• travel insurance policies
• access to the UK’s NHS

This is all you get for CSI

Thanks!

I know the policy or guidelines for the CSI are actually pretty broad so nobody knows for sure what's in... but I get the idea. What I don't understand is why even for someone who's employed CSI is necessary because if you are a self worker or employee you don't need it as EEA but for Non EEA, it seems that you need to have it no matter your circumstances.

[Hstepper07]

That is rules and regulations for you. It does not make sense sometimed

[tmonaghan]

If your NON-EU partner is working full time, only the Student should apply for a CSI. The NON-EU partner won't have to show evidence of a CSI because they work full time and pay their taxes. Therefore, allowed to access the NHS for treatment.

[Hstepper07]

If your NON-EU partner is working full time, only the Student should apply for a CSI. The NON-EU partner won't have to show evidence of a CSI because they work full time and pay their taxes. Therefore, allowed to access the NHS for treatment.

Is this an assumption or a fact? Please see CSI on www.gov.uk. government/publications/sickness-insurance-for-family-members-of-eea-students

Registration certificates and residence cards – applications received on or
after 22nd June 2015
Applications for registration certificates or residence cards received on or
after 22nd June will be decided in line with the amended Regulations. This
means that evidence of CSI must be provided to cover the EEA national
and any family member also residing in the UK with them. Where there is
no evidence of CSI for the EEA national or their family member(s), the
application will be refused in line with regulation 4. For more information of
what is sufficient evidence of CSI, see the modernised guidance.

[tmonaghan]

Is this an assumption or a fact? Please see CSI on www.gov.uk. government/publications/sickness-insurance-for-family-members-of-eea-students

Registration certificates and residence cards – applications received on or
after 22nd June 2015
Applications for registration certificates or residence cards received on or
after 22nd June will be decided in line with the amended Regulations. This
means that evidence of CSI must be provided to cover the EEA national
and any family member also residing in the UK with them. Where there is
no evidence of CSI for the EEA national or their family member(s), the
application will be refused in line with regulation 4. For more information of
what is sufficient evidence of CSI, see the modernised guidance.

This implies that the NON-EU Citizen is not working. In this case the NON-EU Citizen is working full time and paying taxes. So only the student is expected to show that they held a CSI while exercising their treaty rights. The NON-EU Citizen is not a burden; the Student is unless there have a CSI.

Anyone else experienced in this area of expertise?

[CR001]

Is this an assumption or a fact? Please see CSI on www.gov.uk. government/publications/sickness-insurance-for-family-members-of-eea-students

Registration certificates and residence cards – applications received on or
after 22nd June 2015
Applications for registration certificates or residence cards received on or
after 22nd June will be decided in line with the amended Regulations. This
means that evidence of CSI must be provided to cover the EEA national
and any family member also residing in the UK with them. Where there is
no evidence of CSI for the EEA national or their family member(s), the
application will be refused in line with regulation 4. For more information of
what is sufficient evidence of CSI, see the modernised guidance.

This implies that the NON-EU Citizen is not working. In this case the NON-EU Citizen is working full time and paying taxes. So only the student is expected to show that they held a CSI while exercising their treaty rights. The NON-EU Citizen is not a burden; the Student is unless there have a CSI.

Anyone else experienced in this area of expertise?

Where does it 'imply' that the non-EU citizen is not working?? My understanding is that CSI should cover both EU and non-EU citizen, regardless of non-EU citizen working or not.

[tmonaghan]

Nowhere it says that the NON-EU Citizen requires a CSI when they have full-time employment. The Student will, because they have to exercise their treaty rights.

[CR001]

Nowhere it says that the NON-EU Citizen requires a CSI when they have full-time employment. The Student will, because they have to exercise their treaty rights.

Non-EU citizens employment status is completely irrelevant.

[tmonaghan]

This is one example when someone needs to hire a Solicitor, because this could be a loophole.

[Hstepper07]

This is one example when someone needs to hire a Solicitor, because this could be a loophole.

If that is the case non eea family members working full time can exercise treaty right for their partners as workers and self employed persons as it was also not specified in the regulations.
Besides, why would you hire a solicitor when you can just pay the damn CSI and have peace of mind.

[tmonaghan]

Who talked about non eea family members working full time can exercise treaty right for their partners as workers and self employed persons as it was also not specified in the regulations?

Show me the evidence that NON-EU Citizen requires a CSI while working full time and paying taxes? Show me the evidence then...

[tmonaghan]

You know what? I am going to lodge a claim through Your Europe Advice - Europa EU to ask them what they think about it... They take a few working days but at least they will tell us if a NON-EU Citizen should have a CSI while working full time and paying taxes in the UK. It will also apply to other EU Member States...

[tmonaghan]

On Friday, 3 November 2017, 11:40:41 GMT, <noreply@communi-k.eu> wrote:


This is an automated message.
Please do not reply.

Thank you for your e-mail. We expect to respond in three working days on average. For more complex or specific queries, responses may take longer.

Your case number is 101000225601

Your registered enquiry to the Europe Direct contact centre is as follows:

Hello,

I am a French Student and I am married to a NON-EU Citizen and both reside in the UK. While I hold a CSI because I am a student. Does my husband require a CSI while working full time and paying taxes in the UK? Many thanks, tmonaghan

Please use the Webform if there are any errors or omissions in this confirmation


With kind regards,

EUROPE DIRECT Contact Centre

[tmonaghan]

This is a copy and paste email

****************************************************************************
On Monday, 6 November 2017, 08:41:56 GMT, EDCC <no_reply@communi-k.eu> wrote:

Dear Mr. Monaghan,

Thank you for contacting the Europe Direct Contact Centre.

In the EU, the country responsible for your social security and your health insurance depends on your economic status and your place of residence – not your nationality. This issue, however, concerns the national level authorities, as healthcare systems can vary significantly between EU Member States.

UK Home Office guidelines have asserted that possession of a European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) issued by an EEA Member State other than the UK is sufficient proof of CSI. However, for clarity in your situation, and to learn more about NHS cover in relation to this requirement, we advise you to contact the relevant authorities in the UK for more information. You can find contact information for the NHS and the UK Home Office here:
https://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcar ... point.aspx
https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/home-office

You can learn more about EU rules concerning health insurance cover abroad here: http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/he ... dex_en.htm

We hope this will enable you to obtain the information you need. Please do not hesitate to contact us again should you have any questions about the European Union, its activities or institutions.
*********************************************************
So it seems that there are no rules under EU Law regarding NON-EU Citizens and their obligations to hold a CSI.

[ribena]

Not to confuse further.. but from my previous experience was I* did not submit any CSI when I was applying for RC back in 2009. And CSI was not required when I applied for RoR in 2011/12 (on the basis I was working full time - I was told this by my solicitor)

* I am Non-EEA national still working full time.