Query on Tourist Visa

[laji]

I am listing down our situation for my father. If you can guide us, it would be a big help for the whole family..

This is regarding my father who is 73 years old, widower (Indian Citizen) has 2 kids (Daughter – myself (living in UK) and Son – Irish Citizen).
I am living in UK since Nov,2010 with my husband and child (husband currently in UK on tier2 (ICT)(long term staff)VISA and wife (Dependent Visa).Me, my husband and child are all Indian Citizens.

My dad visited my brother and his family(Irish Citizens) in Ireland on a 3 months Visitor Visa in Feb 2014, after my mum passed away in Dec 2013. As Dad was alone in India, no children to look after him. My brother being an Irish Citizen, tried to apply, seeking extension of visitor permission for Dad ,while dad’s stay in Ireland.
Dad’s visa was expiring in May 2014 and my brother applied for the extension permission in April 2014.My brother showed that Dad was incapable of living alone in India and had a heart condition, so, requested to grant the permission to stay. But, Dad was not granted the permission to stay back. The first reply to Dad’s application came in July2014, in which he was refused to stay.

My brother requested to review the application again on humanitarian grounds, and received another letter in AUG 2014 from Irish immigration and Naturalization services(INIS), asking to produce some more details of my brother’s financial status, dad’s current medical report and some more details, which he provided straight away. But, after this he received a letter in November 2014, saying that my brother’s salary was not high enough (60,000 EUROs for 3 consecutive years) to meet any foreseeable expenses, as in the case of an elderly dependent parent. Following letter was in November end stating that dad needs to leave the country. It was stated in the letter that if he leaves Ireland voluntarily, he may apply to come back to Ireland in future on a Tourist Visa. .
It took 9 extra months, from the visitor visa expiration date of May 2014, to do all the correspondence with the Irish government and after being refused, dad voluntarily returned to India in Jan2015. Dad was not deported from Ireland, he went back voluntarily at his own expenses.

He applied for his UK general visitor visa in Aug 2015 from India, to visit his daughter here in UK. In Sep 2015, he got the refusal letter mentioning the reason as, the authority is not convinced that Dad will go back to India as he has not shown that, he had any extension granted in Ireland for his extended stay and he has overstayed by 9 months (no mention of the reason to stay back at Ireland) and also he is a widower.
And, along with this, he has not shown any social connections of him back in India. So, the authority is assuming that his daughter and son in law have decided to accommodate him and the authority is not sure about his intentions of going back to India. Visa officer did not raise any objection on the financial side of Dad and his son in law.

I am attaching the paragraph from the refusal letter from the UK authority here (extract from the refusal letter provided by UK visa officer)

I have refused your application for a visit visa because I am not satisfied that you meet the requirements of Appendix V immigration rules for visitors.

You state you wish to enter the UK for a period of six months to visit your daughter.
Whilst I understand the importance of family visits under the UK immigration rules, you must show that you qualify for a visa by explaining your own circumstances and the plans you have for your visit. I acknowledge that your sponsor in the UK has offered to accommodate you during your proposed trip and I acknowledge the documents you provide from them along with your application. I also acknowledge that you submit a bank statement in your own name. However, your sponsor is only one element of the application and it is your own circumstances in India I must also take into consideration.

• Your passport is endorsed with an Irish visa issued on Janaury 2014. You subsequently entered Ireland on 4th February 2014. Your passport was endorsed with a manual stamp indicating you had permission to be in Ireland only until May 2014 and you have not submitted evidence that you had any form of visa extension during your time in Ireland. You re-entered India in Janaury 2015. It appears that you overstayed your visa in Ireland for a period of nine months.
• I note that you propose to fund your own trip and have the funds to do so, but I am obliged to consider your intentions whilst you are in the UK. I note that you are a widower and you have a son in Ireland and your daughter in the UK. Your bank statement indicates that you have an income from sources other than your children but you have not submitted any evidence of having ties or commitments, particularly social ones in India which indicate that you would leave the UK before the expiry of your visa. This is of particular importance in your case, given you previously overstayed your visa in Ireland. I am therefore not satisfied that you will leave the UK at the end of your visit.
• After having considered the above, I am not satisfied that you have shown that you intend to leave the UK at the end of your visit, that you are genuinely seeking entry for a purpose that is permitted by the visitor routes and that u will not undertake any of the prohibited activities set out in v4.5-v4.10 (v4.2 (a) (c) and (d)). Your application for a visit visa has been refused under paragraph v4.2 (a).


Future applications

Any future UK visa applications you make will be considered on their individual merits, but they may be refused unless:

• Your personal circumstances change significantly between now and your next application.
• You provide compelling new evidence with your next application.
In relation to this decision there is no right of appeal or right to administrative review.

Dad applied for a family visit visa of Ireland in Feb 2016, after a year when he left Ireland in Jan2015. This was also refused though, he covered all the points this time, mentioning his own house and rented flat in India as his obligation to go back. He also covered the family ties showing that he is well connected to his brothers and sisters in India with their residential proofs. And he also showed his latest medical check-up report from a very reputed hospital in India, as the proof of his good health. This was to show that he is in good health and living independently in India. (He showed this specifically because, earlier when my brother had asked for a long term extension of Dad’s visa, he had mentioned that dad has cardiac problem and won’t be able to live alone in India).

To clarify our previously mentioned points, in the request for long term extension, dad covered all the points of social ties, family ties and he also showed his free lifetime medical cover from his Government company, where he worked before his retirement (this was shown to convince the visa officer, that he will go back to India for this free medical cover, which he will not get at Ireland).
He tried his best to cover all the points to assure the visa officer that he will go back to India on the expiry of his Ireland Family Visit visa and has no intentions this time to stay back at Ireland.
Still the Family Visit Visa was refused.
He was given the right to appeal for Refusal of Family visit visa (administrative review), we appealed for the same however that was also rejected.

Extract from the Ireland refusal Letter

IH:- Immigration history of applicant
OB:- Obligations to return to home country have not been deemed sufficient
OC:- Condition - The applicant may branch into the Common Travel Area
between Ireland and the UK.
OC:- Condition - The applicant may overstay following proposed visit.
OC:- Observe the conditions of the visa - the visa sought is for a specific
purpose and duration:- the applicant has not satisfied the visa officer that such
conditions would be observed.


We submitted a fresh application again for Ireland Family visit visa in August 2016.This was also rejected with similar reasons as given above.

We want guidance based on the case description above, that if we apply for a UK tourist Visa now, do we stand any chance of getting it?

And, if by any chance by God's grace he gets the Tourist Visa for once,Will that open his route to visit us periodically or every time he applies for his visit Visa, his application would be seen as coming from a widower and immigration history,that might raise doubts for the Visa Officer to think that he may not go back.

The reason we are asking this because if we hire a solicitor and by any chance he is granted the visitor visa,do we need to keep applying in future through a solicitor , which would be very expensive....

One more question is that we have applied for Ireland Tourist Visa in Aug 2016 and after that we have not made any Visa applications for any country. If we wait till Aug 2018 or more and then, make an application for UK Tourist Visa, will that increase the chances to get a positive outcome?
We have no wrong intentions, just want our Dad to be able to visit us periodically. It looks like his travel route is closed forever and it is very disappointing for all of us.

Please advise us ,what options are available to get positive outcome.

Are there any Solicitors who have proven record in such cases? Any good recommendations would be really very much appreciated, as we have tried talking to many and are not able to find any reliable ones.

Thanking in advance and would appreciate your genuine opinion and guidance....

[smarter1]

Taking into the account your dad's history with the UK and Ireland, it is highly unlikely he would be granted a UK visitor visa in the nearest future unless there would be a change of circumstances. Since all his children are in the UK/Ireland, he is a widower, with no job, no property (not sure about it but suppose so), it is logical to assume he would want to stay in the UK with his family.

You can try to apply for this - https://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa/adult ... t-relative

However, in my view, it would be better to seek a professional help and gather all possible evidence since there is generally a high rejection rate in this category. It won't be quick as well.

[CR001]

My brother showed that Dad was incapable of living alone in India and had a heart condition, so, requested to grant the permission to stay.

He also covered the family ties showing that he is well connected to his brothers and sisters in India with their residential proofs. And he also showed his latest medical check-up report from a very reputed hospital in India, as the proof of his good health. This was to show that he is in good health and living independently in India. (He showed this specifically because, earlier when my brother had asked for a long term extension of Dad’s visa, he had mentioned that dad has cardiac problem and won’t be able to live alone in India).

So in the extension application in Ireland your brother claimed he cannot look after himself and then contradicted himself in the second Ireland visa.

UK and Ireland share immigration information and therefore highly unlikely that he will get a UK visa as he would be considered high risk and Ireland might be reluctant to issue one again due to the previous attempt to extend his stay and the overstay.

[CR001]

You can try to apply for this - https://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa/adult ... t-relative

This would not apply as the OP is on the Tier 2 visa route that does not lead to ILR. This is also the most expensive and most difficult visa to get with a very high refusal rate.

[smarter1]

This would not apply as the OP is on the Tier 2 visa route that does not lead to ILR. This is also the most expensive and most difficult visa to get with a very high refusal rate.

Oh yes, true, I did not notice OP is on Tier 2 Dependent visa. However, since when Tier 2 does not lead to ILR?

[secret.simon]

since when Tier 2 does not lead to ILR?

husband currently in UK on tier2 (ICT)(long term staff)VISA

Tier 2 ICT visas issued pursuant to applications submitted on or after 6th April 2010 are not eligible to progress to ILR on their own, though time spent on Tier 2 ICT would of course count towards ILR(LR), in aggregation with time spent on other visas.

[smarter1]

Tier 2 ICT visas issued pursuant to applications submitted on or after 6th April 2010[/url] are not eligible to progress to ILR on their own, though time spent on Tier 2 ICT would of course count towards ILR(LR), in aggregation with time spent on other visas.

I see, this is all about ICT. Thanks a lot for clarification.