Sign and Change the Imigration Rules

[my Petition]

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/205204

Please sign and share

[AdInfernos]

I wholeheartedly agree that evidence of English language should be broader. There are many certifications above the required B1 level that they don't accept. For example, Cambridge First Certificate, CAE, CPE. But also it is obvious that people who are integrated in the education system, as it is the case of your son, do speak English correctly. This also includes those who have attained a Certificate or Diploma of Higher Education, not only a Degree.

Unfortunately getting a change in their requirements, which as I understand are set by using Royal Prerogative powers, seems an almost impossible challenge.

Anyway, your son has been bold making an application that costs £1,282 without checking first that he fulfilled beyond reasonable doubt the documentary requirement for knowledge of the English language.

[secret.simon]

getting a change in their requirements, which as I understand are set by using Royal Prerogative powers, seems an almost impossible challenge.

Errr, no. The requirements are not issued under the Royal Prerogative.

They are issued by ministers under powers delegated to them by Parliament using legislation. The Immigration Act 1971 and its various amending acts gives ministers powers to define what is and is not acceptable as proof of English skills for the purposes of immigration (for non-EEA citizens only). The British Nationality Act 1981 (as amended) gives ministers similar powers in terms of acquisition of citizenship (naturalisation and registration) - which is not governed by the same laws as immigration.

It is a ministerial power specifically granted to them by Act of Parliament, not one of the Royal Prerogative. (UK citizenship is regulated by Act of Parliament. UK passports are issued under the Royal Prerogative, but that is by the bye).

Ministerial powers, either under Act of Parliament (delegated legislation) or under Royal Prerogative, can be challenged in court. You will however need deep pockets to go through the courts.

[my Petition]

Thank you very much for reading my story and for your kind comment .I am hopping the rule can be chaged if we all sign .
Best Regards ,

[AdInfernos]

getting a change in their requirements, which as I understand are set by using Royal Prerogative powers, seems an almost impossible challenge.

Errr, no. The requirements are not issued under the Royal Prerogative.

They are issued by ministers under powers delegated to them by Parliament using legislation. The Immigration Act 1971 and its various amending acts gives ministers powers to define what is and is not acceptable as proof of English skills for the purposes of immigration (for non-EEA citizens only). The British Nationality Act 1981 (as amended) gives ministers similar powers in terms of acquisition of citizenship (naturalisation and registration) - which is not governed by the same laws as immigration.

It is a ministerial power specifically granted to them by Act of Parliament, not one of the Royal Prerogative. (UK citizenship is regulated by Act of Parliament. UK passports are issued under the Royal Prerogative, but that is by the bye).

Ministerial powers, either under Act of Parliament (delegated legislation) or under Royal Prerogative, can be challenged in court. You will however need deep pockets to go through the courts.

Thanks for the clarification. Despite being aware of the 1981 BNA I had for some reason HMPO on my mind. Still, as you say, challenging the ministerial powers for this purpose is impractical. At the end of the day it turns out to be cheaper paying 150ish quid and sitting the b1 exam than taking the Secretary of State to court.

[secret.simon]

it turns out to be cheaper paying 150ish quid and sitting the b1 exam than taking the Secretary of State to court.

True.

Also remember that non-EEA immigrants pay over a small fortune to the government for immigration any way. My immigration ten years ago has cost me about £5000-6000 overall and that is as a single person. Fees go up about 20% per annum approximately. So, a family of four (non-EEA migrants) going through immigration now would be expecting to pay something in the region of £18,000 - £20,000 over the whole immigration process. A fee of £150 for the English test does not have that huge an impact if you are already paying that much, as compared to the whole immigration process costing an EEA migrant (and their non-EEA spouse) £65 each - so, just £260 for a family of four, only one of which has to be an EEA citizen - for all five years of immigration.

[my Petition]

I also spent over £1.700 for my Citizenship , I accepted to take the B1 test because I never study in UK but for my son who had Medicine Interview , pass all the tests and making practice in hospitals to tell him the news was very heartbroken .
He trust British lows and rules and this one is not right . It is not acceptable .
Thank you all again and very sorry for my poor english ..
Best Regards ,

[CR001]

I also spent over £1.700 for my Citizenship ,

Not sure why you paid this much. It only costs £1282 for citizenship for an adult.

He trust British lows and rules and this one is not right . It is not acceptable .

We all have to follow the requirements to qualify for the privilege of British citizenship. Simplyl 'trust the laws and rules' is not sufficient. It is the applicants responsibility to make sure they meet all the requirements, so not sure why you feel your son was 'humiliated' when the form clearly states what the requirements are. It certaily is also not an 'abusive rule' either. Simply get your son to do the test and apply again.

Highly unlikely your petition will make any difference or change.

[AdInfernos]

it turns out to be cheaper paying 150ish quid and sitting the b1 exam than taking the Secretary of State to court.

True.

Also remember that non-EEA immigrants pay over a small fortune to the government for immigration any way. My immigration ten years ago has cost me about £5000-6000 overall and that is as a single person. Fees go up about 20% per annum approximately. So, a family of four (non-EEA migrants) going through immigration now would be expecting to pay something in the region of £18,000 - £20,000 over the whole immigration process. A fee of £150 for the English test does not have that huge an impact if you are already paying that much, as compared to the whole immigration process costing an EEA migrant (and their non-EEA spouse) £65 each - so, just £260 for a family of four, only one of which has to be an EEA citizen - for all five years of immigration.

Yes, I'm aware of the costs for non-EU migrants, but overall British immigration-related fees are exorbitant if you compare with those of surrounding countries. For example, naturalisation as a Spanish citizen costs 101 euros. As a French citizen, the fee is 55 euros. And your dependant children also get it with you. In Ireland, naturalisation is closer in price to the UK, but instead of paying for the consideration, most of the money goes towards the naturalisation certificate. This means that if you are rejected, most of the money is refunded.

£65 for an EU/EEA document may be very cheap, but is over six times what a Briton has to pay in Spain for the same document. And the application form is 84 pages longer.

Of course we can also make favourable comparisons. The six-month processing time for citizenship is very good if compare with the terrible bureaucracy and lengthy wait in Spain or France.

But yes, in the UK, immigration is a money making machine for the Crown.

[AdInfernos]

Highly unlikely your petition will make any difference or change.

Perhaps engaging a few MPs would be more productive, but again, it is unlikely most MPs will be interested in this situation which only affects non-British citizens.

[swintooh]

I also think this is pointless. You failed to meet a fundamental (and one of the best explained) requirement and now you want others to sign a petition to do exactly what? Over my odd 20 years long residency in Britain I met practicing doctors and nurses who could not clearly communicate in English, many, many students of local universities who could hardly speak English. I have absolutely no problem with the government imposing language tests on the citizenship applicants. The only thing I can symphatise with is the very high cost of a 5 mins worth of the exam.

[my Petition]

I also think this is pointless. You failed to meet a fundamental (and one of the best explained) requirement and now you want others to sign a petition to do exactly what? Over my odd 20 years long residency in Britain I met practicing doctors and nurses who could not clearly communicate in English, many, many students of local universities who could hardly speak English. I have absolutely no problem with the government imposing language tests on the citizenship applicants. The only thing I can symphatise with is the very high cost of a 5 mins worth of the exam.

My son study in the last 7 years here in uk , he has pass all the exams with fantastic grades , at 18 has the right to fill a form for citizinship but he needs to prove he can speack and understand English ?
He has no chance to win with such a error .
He did not study outside in uk , he has higher B in english .. and he does not know any other language ..

[my Petition]

Highly unlikely your petition will make any difference or change.

Perhaps engaging a few MPs would be more productive, but again, it is unlikely most MPs will be interested in this situation which only affects non-British citizens.

I start that already , thank you very much , I really apreciate it .

[my Petition]

I wholeheartedly agree that evidence of English language should be broader. There are many certifications above the required B1 level that they don't accept. For example, Cambridge First Certificate, CAE, CPE. But also it is obvious that people who are integrated in the education system, as it is the case of your son, do speak English correctly. This also includes those who have attained a Certificate or Diploma of Higher Education, not only a Degree.

Unfortunately getting a change in their requirements, which as I understand are set by using Royal Prerogative powers, seems an almost impossible challenge.

Anyway, your son has been bold making an application that costs £1,282 without checking first that he fulfilled beyond reasonable doubt the documentary requirement for knowledge of the English language.

I was sure his Higher English B will be above the 5 minutes test I had B1...

[my Petition]

I also spent over £1.700 for my Citizenship ,

Not sure why you paid this much. It only costs £1282 for citizenship for an adult.

I spent more then £1700 , I have no centre in my town for english test or life in uk , only the train was each time £190 + food + the tests + books

[my Petition]

He trust British lows and rules and this one is not right . It is not acceptable .

We all have to follow the requirements to qualify for the privilege of British citizenship. Simplyl 'trust the laws and rules' is not sufficient. It is the applicants responsibility to make sure they meet all the requirements, so not sure why you feel your son was 'humiliated' when the form clearly states what the requirements are.
I went for the life in uk test , one corner of one big industrial place out of city , very dirty and very rude staff .. felt like in an abatuar ..but I had no choice and went with my son too , they shout to me to wait outside if I am not there for the test .. The place has no waiting room so I was sitting down between the cars in the outside parking .
Went again for the english test , kind staff , but the place very poor and the test was like a bad joke (
I could not believe I was in uk and all that is happening ..
I am sorry but cannot accept any of this for my kids raised and educated here .

[swintooh]

You keep complaining - you had a large choices for Life in the UK test centres, same for the language tests. They are run by private businesses. If you chose badly, well you could have walked away and book the tests somewhere else.
You didn't read the requirements, didn't follow VERY SIMPLE instructions, now you are petitioning to the government to do exactly what? Abandon language requirements? Your petition is very badly written, it doesn't even state what you want to achieve. I guess that would be to include the A-level exams (A or B grade) taken in the UK as proof of language proficiency or just generally to extend the scope of acceptable language qualification or just for the Home Office to change their mind about your son?
Guess what, I had to prove my language proficiency through this test despite living in English speaking countries for the last 20 years, holding managerial positions in world's largest corporations, passing many complex industry certification exams in English and... being a published author (in English). And yes, B1 test is very simple.

I'm trying to be emphatetic here, but you are just living in denial about your own mistakes that resulted in a refusal, now complaining on the how the world treated you badly. Next time, if you can't understand instructions, or are not confident to fill in the forms yourself, seek free help (i.e. from this forum or someone else who has done that before) or hire a specialist (solicitor) or use NCS if possible.

To be honest, I can imagine worse governments to deal with in Europe in terms of not being flexible and sticking to the letter of law and generally being unhelpful or plain discriminatory and corrupt if case worker discretion is allowed. If you can't accept the reality or follow the rules here, you can always go and live somewhere else.

You made a simple mistake, albeit very expensive. Just tell your son to take the exam, pay again and resubmit the application.

[swintooh]

I also spent over £1.700 for my Citizenship ,

Not sure why you paid this much. It only costs £1282 for citizenship for an adult.

No it doesn't. For majority of people it costs significantly more than that to go through the process and gain British citizenship.

Let's see what the cost elements can be (for EEA national):
- photos for DCPR
- NCS fee
- transportation/parking
- DCPR application fee
- paid statements (i.e. from the surgery or school) confirming your registration/helping proving the residency
- postage

Then (say after a year):
- photos for naturalisation
- NCS fee
- transportation/parking/accomodation for multiple visits at different places: council/registrar, photo shop, LIUK test, English test, biometrics
- naturalisation fee
- LIUK test fee
- B1 English fee
- biometrics fee
- private ceremony fee
- postage

I understand that some of these elements are optional and depend on circumstances, but stating that it only cost £1282 to gain citizenship through naturalisation isn't exactly correct as it understates the overall costs.

I would estimate my overall costs at close to £6000 for a 2A+2C family from EEA country.

Obviously the moment you engage immigration solicitor or have to travel far or book hotel the overall costs will be significantly higher.