SET M query

[gaveen2018]

Hello everyone,

I am going to apply set lr in june 2018. But stuck with question D.8. Have you worked in the uk without immigration permission to do so. Yes or No Because there was a period i did it for about 10 months.

My immigration history as follows-

2008-2012 student visa
2012-2013 tier 4( no work permitted) because i was in a private collage. But i continued my work.

2013-2015 tier 4 with work permitted.( university college for my master)
2015 -2017 flr fp ( have british wife, british child) but didnt meet financial requirement
2017-2019 flr m ( i earn above required income)

Never overstayer, always extended visa on time and never got asked anything extra for flr fp and then flr m. I always thought my case was straightforward until i discover D.8 question on form. What should be my answer. Thank you everyone.

[makky86]

2012-2013 tier 4( no work permitted) because i was in a private collage. But i continued my work.

Normally its 20 hours per week for Tier 4. How many hours you were working? Did you have valid T4 during this period?

[gaveen2018]

2012-2013 tier 4( no work permitted) because i was in a private collage. But i continued my work.

Normally its 20 hours per week for Tier 4. How many hours you were working? Did you have valid T4 during this period?

Yes i had valid leave throughout that period. Worked 20 hours a week.

[makky86]

2012-2013 tier 4( no work permitted) because i was in a private collage. But i continued my work.

Normally its 20 hours per week for Tier 4. How many hours you were working? Did you have valid T4 during this period?

Yes i had valid leave throughout that period. Worked 20 hours a week.

Then what is the issue?

[gaveen2018]

2012-2013 tier 4( no work permitted) because i was in a private collage. But i continued my work.

Normally its 20 hours per week for Tier 4. How many hours you were working? Did you have valid T4 during this period?

Yes i had valid leave throughout that period. Worked 20 hours a week.

Then what is the issue?

That particular year period i
had no work alowed coz i was in private college.

[makky86]

That particular year period i
had no work alowed coz i was in private college.

So you had Tier-4 with "no work permitted" and yet you worked. Was it PAYE(Pay as you earn) and recorded on HMRC?

[gaveen2018]

That particular year period i
had no work alowed coz i was in private college.

So you had Tier-4 with "no work permitted" and yet you worked. Was it PAYE(Pay as you earn) and recorded on HMRC?

PAYE. I suppose it got recorded on hmrc.

[makky86]

That particular year period i
had no work alowed coz i was in private college.

So you had Tier-4 with "no work permitted" and yet you worked. Was it PAYE(Pay as you earn) and recorded on HMRC?

PAYE. I suppose it got recorded on hmrc.

Weird how did you manage to get a job where you clearly had no permission to work !

Request last 10 years records history from HMRC and see if its recorded.

[gaveen2018]

That particular year period i
had no work alowed coz i was in private college.

So you had Tier-4 with "no work permitted" and yet you worked. Was it PAYE(Pay as you earn) and recorded on HMRC?

PAYE. I suppose it got recorded on hmrc.

Weird how did you manage to get a job where you clearly had no permission to work !

Request last 10 years records history from HMRC and see if its recorded.

Thank you. Do they provide data like that. Is there a way to do that. Or just ring them.

[makky86]

Thank you. Do they provide data like that. Is there a way to do that. Or just ring them.

Of course they have to.

https://www.gov.uk/get-proof-employment-history

Fill form and send it over. You'll get in few weeks all the data recorded in HMRC system. If its recorded in HMRC that you did work and earn money in that year then it might be issue when applying for ILR as you breached the conditions of your stay !

[vinny]

Did they endorse your passport with a "no work permitted" condition at that time?

[gaveen2018]

Did they endorse your passport with a "no work permitted" condition at that time?

Unfortunately yes!

[gaveen2018]

Thank you. Do they provide data like that. Is there a way to do that. Or just ring them.

Of course they have to.

https://www.gov.uk/get-proof-employment-history

Fill form and send it over. You'll get in few weeks all the data recorded in HMRC system. If its recorded in HMRC that you did work and earn money in that year then it might be issue when applying for ILR as you breached the conditions of your stay !

Thank you so much i think there is a record about it. It looks like i stabbed myself. Anyway i will request it.But the question is will HO go into detail to check about it.

[makky86]

Thank you so much i think there is a record about it. It looks like i stabbed myself. Anyway i will request it.But the question is will HO go into detail to check about it.

Most probably yes. If they do and find out then this may cause more issues than just refusal ! Its your call. You should not have worked if not permitted

You can always get a professional advise

http://home.oisc.gov.uk/how_to_find_a_r ... inder.aspx

[gaveen2018]

Thank you so much i think there is a record about it. It looks like i stabbed myself. Anyway i will request it.But the question is will HO go into detail to check about it.

Most probably yes. If they do and find out then this may cause more issues than just refusal ! Its your call. You should not have worked if not permitted

You can always get a professional advise

http://home.oisc.gov.uk/how_to_find_a_r ... inder.aspx

Even if they refuse ilr falling under general ground for refusal. Will i still get 30 month grant under flr m providing i still meet relationship and financial requirement. Thanks

[aaliya1986]

how come this did not come up in other applications?

the OP applied 3 more visas after the 'no work' visa and got the visa. does this indicate something?

[CR001]

how come this did not come up in other applications?

the OP applied 3 more visas after the 'no work' visa and got the visa. does this indicate something?

Employment history is not required for 'other' applications. It is for ILR and citizenship and it is checked and verified by HO. That is why most refusals occur at ILR or citizenship stage due to breach of immigration rules and visa conditions.

[gaveen2018]

how come this did not come up in other applications?

the OP applied 3 more visas after the 'no work' visa and got the visa. does this indicate something?

Employment history is not required for 'other' applications. It is for ILR and citizenship and it is checked and verified by HO. That is why most refusals occur at ILR or citizenship stage due to breach of immigration rules and visa conditions.

Should i instead go for flr m extention and apply for set m once i complete 5 years? I looked the set m form and there is nowhere asked about employment history. Am i safe this way?? Thanks

[aaliya1986]

how come this did not come up in other applications?

the OP applied 3 more visas after the 'no work' visa and got the visa. does this indicate something?

Employment history is not required for 'other' applications. It is for ILR and citizenship and it is checked and verified by HO. That is why most refusals occur at ILR or citizenship stage due to breach of immigration rules and visa conditions.

I do not mean to contradict with what you are saying but it is very very difficult.

I would give my example as a case. I have never worked over 20 hours but, I work for two employers on the PAYE. Meaning i get two different pay slips.

One employer pays according to the weekly hour but the other employer adds up all the hours and divides it by month. So, it is very hard to get this through the payslip because different employers may pay differently.

I have heard so many cases where student visas were refused because of breach of working restrictions.

I think it varies

[aaliya1986]

As there are confusions around the work week and etc. This is how UKVI defines a work week

https://www.ukcisa.org.uk/Information-- ... n-you-work

How is a 'week' defined?
Last modified: 17 August 2017
Since 6 April 2017, 'week' has been defined in the Immigration Rules as "a period of 7 days beginning with a Monday".

If you work irregular hours and/or have more than one employer, you will need to keep detailed records of how many hours you work each day so that you can be sure that you are not in danger of breaching your work condition by exceeding 10 or 20 hours in any seven-day period, starting on a Monday.

Before this change was announced on 16 March 2017, we asked the Home Office how it defined a 'week' when calculating whether a Tier 4 student has complied with the limit of 10 or 20 hours a week of work in term time.

The answer we received on 17 May 2016 was "Though there is no definition in the Immigration Rules or guidance, our Policy colleagues have previously described a “week” in this context as being any rolling 7 day period".

Note that the Home Office was aware that this policy interpretation of 'week' had no basis in its own legislation or guidance, so other reasonable interpretations should be accepted for work carried out before 6 April 2017, but not on or after that date.

[CR001]

I do not mean to contradict with what you are saying but it is very very difficult.

You are missing the point entirely. The OP continued to work on a visa that clearly stated they were not permitted to work. So the question is not regarding the '20 hours per week' in this instance.

[aaliya1986]

I do not mean to contradict with what you are saying but it is very very difficult.

You are missing the point entirely. The OP continued to work on a visa that clearly stated they were not permitted to work. So the question is not regarding the '20 hours per week' in this instance.

I get the OPs point. I am just trying to say that it is very very very hard to construct that he was within the 20 hour work limit. for e.g.

what if it was off-term? - college closed and he cannot get any letters or etc but it was off-term
what if there was a mistake in PAYE, which was not rectified?
what if hours were miscalculated because of human error?

these are all what if scenarios but absolutely valid and could happen.

Unless the OP was going way too over the 20 hours i think there is a very minor chance of getting in trouble. because if there was a chance he would have been refused the other 3 visas on the basis of

- breach of immigration rules
- deception

my knowledge is limited on immigration rules but this is very generic and can be easily explained to the case worker.

[CR001]

I do not mean to contradict with what you are saying but it is very very difficult.

You are missing the point entirely. The OP continued to work on a visa that clearly stated they were not permitted to work. So the question is not regarding the '20 hours per week' in this instance.

I get the OPs point. I am just trying to say that it is very very very hard to construct that he was within the 20 hour work limit. for e.g.

what if it was off-term? - college closed and he cannot get any letters or etc but it was off-term
what if there was a mistake in PAYE, which was not rectified?
what if hours were miscalculated because of human error?

these are all what if scenarios but absolutely valid and could happen.

Unless the OP was going way too over the 20 hours i think there is a very minor chance of getting in trouble. because if there was a chance he would have been refused the other 3 visas on the basis of

- breach of immigration rules
- deception

my knowledge is limited on immigration rules but this is very generic and can be easily explained to the case worker.

Please, read the whole topic again. You are only creating confusion. OP was a private college student for the specific period being advice is being given, with a student visa that did not permit ANY work at ANY time, yet OP decided to work in direct breach of their visa conditions.

The 'other 3 visas' DO NOT ask for employment history to be listed.

Did they endorse your passport with a "no work permitted" condition at that time?

Unfortunately yes!

[aaliya1986]

[/quote]
Please, read the whole topic again. You are only creating confusion. OP was a private college student for the specific period being advice is being given, with a student visa that did not permit ANY work at ANY time, yet OP decided to work in direct breach of their visa conditions.

The 'other 3 visas' DO NOT ask for employment history to be listed.
[/quote]

I read it.

After the OP worked in direct breach of his immigration rules, he made three application and all of the 3 application were successful.

I assume the OP marked NO in the first visa application form, after breaching immigration rules.

Then in the second and third, the same, including that he did not use deception to get the visa.

He got away all the three times.

Regardless of the application type, he HO checks work and etc through the NI.

What are the chances of being caught out in the ILR? based on previous history - None.

But if he gets caught out, then not only visa refused but also 10 year ban.!

[CR001]

He got away all the three times. Or very lucky as visas come under different rules to ILR and citizenship which both have more stringent checks.

Regardless of the application type, he HO checks work and etc through the NI. Not always.

What are the chances of being caught out in the ILR? based on previous history - None. Strong chance given that the OP has to declare to answer the relevant question honestly and if he does then he has a problem. If he does not and HO check, then he still has a problem.

But if he gets caught out, then not only visa refused but also 10 year ban.! This is relevant to citizenship and not ILR.