My Tier 2 (General Migrant) dependent visa was refused!!

[foreignerintheUK]

Hi,

I am a Tier 2 (General) visa and I got married recently 5 months ago (August 2017). After marriage I left my wife back home and didn't able to visit her due to the extension of my new job contract and visa extension.

On the 27th of December, my wife applied for an entry clearance as "Dependent Partner of a Point Based System Migrant". However, today she received her passport back with a refusal letter saying that my wife needs to demonstrate that the relationship is genuine and subsisting!! It also mentions that "Documents and information to demonstrate a relationship, may take in the form of telephone contact, exchange of cards at important events - such as birthdays - document demonstrating co-habitants, post marriage visits, etc."

She actually provided our marriage certificate and our wedding photos, but not phone call logs and I didn't visit her after marriage due to my previous visa extension and other reasons.

Over the last six months, we talk everyday over "Imo" apps and sometimes over "Viber", rarely using phone calls. We have exchanges probably thousands of message and many photos.

Now she would like to apply again with the call logs ("Viber" and "Imo") in the form of screenshot together and a cover letter with Marriage Certificate/Photos and I will also visit her before the visa application.

1) Do you think this would be enough to demonstrate our husband/wife relationship?

2) I can email/download the call history from Viber, but it is downloaded as an excel sheet, which is editable! "Imo" apps does not allow to download call logs/history, I am thinking to take screenshot of our conversation. Will the screenshots and the excel sheet of our conversations/call logs be accepted by the Home Office?

Can you please suggest if this is enough and/or share your experience in this situation you may have experienced?

Many thanks for your support

[vinny]

I have seen similar refusals reported on this board because of lack of evidence of a subsisting marriage.

Their document suggestions are not exhaustive, because of "etc.". Include any evidence of contact.

[foreignerintheUK]

Thank you for your quick reply. Sorry, I didn't realise your reply (no notification was received on my email!).

Most probably, I will re-apply for her visa and I will seek expert advise before applying. In this forum, I have seen few cases (same as mine), who requested for Administrative Review after refusal and they get new positive results within 1-1.5 months.

Does anyone know that if I request for an Administrative Review, will I be able to provide additional documents such as screenshot of our conversations on Viber/IMO and some phone call history as evidence?

I would also like to visit my home country before asking for the Administrative Review, which will also be attached as a evidence of post marriage visit.

We also have Invitation card and video recording for our wedding, do they accept video CD/DVD/USB stick?

Many thanks

[hil4rious1]

Hey,

A 100% similar refusal was received in case of my wife and sons visa. My wife was my dependent whilst i was on tier4 in 2014. Our son was born in uk and his birth certificate is also from uk. My wife travelled back and later i switched to tier 2 in 2015. I was unable to visit them since jan-2016. I applied for their visa on 27-11-17 and got refusal on 29-11-17 with same reason as yours. Documents submitted for supporting our application were;
Letters from NHS whilst my wife was pregnant.
Birth certificate showing both parents name.
Marriage certificate
Marriage photograph
Last six month chat history text format.
Money sent on my dads name to support my wife and son.

The Admin review was filed on 13-12-17 and on 3-1-18 they emailed that the decision has overturned. I re-subitted their passports again on 4-1-18 and havn’t heard anything yet. I will strongly advice you to go for admin review instead of applying again. Explain everything in detail slso it will be a plus if you submit you screenshots of conversations in admin review as i did. Good luck

[vinny]

Unfortunately, AR doesn’t except additional evidence, except as set out under AR2.4. But there’s no harm in trying.

[foreignerintheUK]

Thank you so much for your response and Congratulations!

If I request for a review, the following additional evidence I would be able to add:

1. Our conversation history (I can only show Viber/IMO screenshots - we have loads, but mostly in our own language, NOT in English). What do you mean by Last six month chat history text format.. Do you mean screenshot of your text conversations?

2. As I did not visit my wife after our marriage (not long ago, 3 August 2017), I would like to visit her and attach a copy of my passport for my entry to my home country.

3. All the time I transferred money on my dad's account to support my wife like you, what kind of evidence have you attached for this?

4. And, of course a Letter. When you said Explain everything in detail, do you mean how we got married, why didn't I visit her (which is due to Job and I was planning to go back home to bring her once her visa was granted!), request to accept additional evidence - what else? any suggestions?

5. I do review I can't give them our wedding video, so I thinking to upload the video on YouTube and mention the video link on the Letter. Do you think it will add any value?

This is very painful when your loved one is away.

Many thanks

[foreignerintheUK]

Dear Moderator,
Thank you for you reply.

I was reading AR2.4, which is:

AR2.4 The Reviewer will not consider any evidence that was not before the original decision maker except where:
(a) evidence that was not before the original decision maker is submitted to demonstrate that a case working error as defined in paragraph AR2.11 (a), (b) or (c) has been made; or
(b) the evidence is submitted to demonstrate that the refusal of an application under paragraph 322(2) of these Rules was a case working error and the applicant has not previously been served with a decision to:
(i) refuse an application for entry clearance, leave to enter or leave to remain;
(ii) revoke entry clearance, leave to enter or leave to remain;
(iii) cancel leave to enter or leave to remain;
(iv) curtail leave to enter or leave to remain; or
(v) remove a person from the UK, with the effect of invalidating leave to enter or leave to remain,
which relied on the same findings of facts.

If I look at AR2.11, my case may fall under AR2.11(c). My case may NOT fall under AR2.11(a) because My wife's application was refused under paragraph 319C (d), (e) and (f) of the Immigration Rules.

I am really confused about the way of wordings in the Immigration Rules (Very rich, but confusing)!!

If I request for a review and they refuse again, do you think this will affect any future new application?

Many thanks

[hil4rious1]

Yes the screen shots of the chat submitted in text format. Make sure in chat your name appear. In my case my name was appearing in text format but my wife name wasn’t there instead her email was appearing. Which ECO objected because it wasn’t clear according to him which party this conversations beling to. In admin review I explained the email address appear in chat belongs to my wife and we also submitted our admin review request from that email address to demonstrate our bonafides.

Yes the money should have been sent on wife’s name but it was on my dads name. In admin review I explained that in our chat history I discussed the PIN number of payments with my wife to give it to my father. Those PIN numbers were same as it appeared on the payment slips which were on my dads name.

Yes the post marriage visit was also discussed. For this purpose I specially prepared a statement from my side i.e statement from husband. I explained to them clearly I couldn’t visit my family for 2 years because of ongoing issue of my sponsor with HO. Plus when i was applying for Admin review i already booked my tickets to visit them in dec-17. For this reason I attached my ticket in admin review request.

Just stick to the points you rely on to demonstrate your relationship with your wife and explain every point in detail. Make sure too much explanation might irritate the ECM, just stick to the point.

[foreignerintheUK]

Thanks for this.

For us, we mostly talked over IMO and this app only displays the name as saved your number on your mobile. That means whatever name you save a number, it will be displayed on the chat history.

You suggest we should save each other's number with the corresponding names, so that the right [passport] name is appeared.

We also use Viber (not much), and it displays the full number if the number is not saved on the mobile, which is more acceptable I guess.

Regarding the money transfer, I didn't actually send the PIN as I usually send to my dad's bank account (doesn't require PIN number)! We may have discussed about the money transfer during our chat, but it is our our language!

When I look into the Admin Review form, we need to answer a question (same question four times!) - say why you think a mistake was made.

I would like to answer this question like this:

I apologise for not providing enough evidence of our relationship, which mistakenly led to the refusal. I confirm that our relationship is genuine and subsisting. We talk everyday multiple times in the forms of Viber and IMO audio and video calls, message exchange, telephone calls. As evidence, I have attached the screenshots of our conversations, which shows the date and time.

Many thanks

[CR001]

You cannot submit 'new' evidence for AR. If you did not submit the documents with the visa application, then the refusal is likely correct. AR is for when HO has made an error.

[rishadahmed]

Hi, I am facing the exact same issue. Can you please post your experience with the Administrative Review? Thanks. Rishad