UK Tourist Visa Refusal for Indonesian- Advice Sought

[morphix]

Hi all,

My partner and I are hoping we can get some opinions and advice on applying for a UK Visa for her to visit me. We were unsuccessful in our first application which basically said the government didn't believe our relationship was genuine, and felt there was a risk of a Visa over-stay despite my offering to act as guarantor to her returning to Indonesia before the end of the Visa date.

In fairness our application was not very well planned out as we were rather naive to the whole process and maybe rushed in applying too quickly. They say honesty pays, but I think in our situation it worked against us revealing too much that we were in a relationship etc, when we'd only met once and known each other about 5 months at the time of the application (although we remain in contact daily and spend hours speaking, UK Border Agency were obviously not aware of this and we didn't provide any proof beyond our initial visit and meeting in Indonesia).

This is rather a complicated situation with several factors going against my partner getting a UK Visa and my situation makes it hard for me to just move and work there for other reasons. I will try to keep this as concise as I can, but please feel free to ask for more details..

My partner lives in Indonesia, she is 31 years old and lives with her family but is unemployed at present. I am a British citizen, born in UK with my own business and home. I'm unmarried without any family. My partner has travelled quite a bit, but had two iVisa refusal. The first was to US and the other Australia. The USA incident being quite serious as she was tricked by a 'Visa Agent' who made a fraudulent application and thus she is now barred from ever entering the US. The Australian refusal was a simple case of them fearing an overstay or running out of funds on her visit, due to her employment and/or income status. We thought it best to be upfront with UKBA about both these refusals and gave all the details. She receives some income allowance from her family and has sufficient savings herself for a return flight to Indonesia, but the UKBA did not believe this to be the case. As
I said, I offered in a letter to UKBA to guarantee she would return no matter what, and would cover her return flight but clearly this didn't reassure UKBA.

As my partner and I plan to get married in the near future we were not sure at first whether we should apply for a Visa to do that, or get a UK tourist Visa first and marry here later on a second Visa. We decided a tourist Visa would be easier, and might help us get the other Visa to marry if we had spent more time together, especially in the UK at my home (it's easier for us spend more time together here, than for me to go to Indonesia due to my business).

So that's a bit of background information... now for some questions..

1) Is our situation likely to make it unlikely or very difficult my partner will ever get a Visa to visit the UK or is there a chance if we approached a second application differently? Given that we have already revealed the relationship, presumably UKBA will know about this if we re-apply so we should mention it again? Is it just a case of allowing more time and me visiting Indonesia again (or several times) and us providing further
evidence of our relationship?

2) The refusal letter stated that a re-application was likely to be declined unless there was a 'substantial change in circumstances'. Could anyone clarify what this might mean? Would marriage (outside the UK) constitute a substantial change and thus negate any other factors going against us, like my partners income status and UKBA fear of a Visa overstay? Or is it likely, this is referring more to my partners income and employment status and marriage (outside the UK in a Commonwealth country) wouldn't alter their decision?

3) Assuming we cannot get a UK Visa, our next plan would be to find a country, or a British overseas territory with relaxed Visa laws and both move there. Can anyone offer any suggestions? I know there's several small island countries that have no Visa entry requirements and only permits to stay. We would consider anywhere that is not too expensive to live, preferably with a warm climate. Does anyone know if Gibraltar's Visa system is managed by
UKBA or does Gibraltar's government have independence to decide Visa entry for Indonesians?

Thanks for any help and advice, we are desperate to be together and hope it won't be too long before we can make it happen!

Paul

P.S. If it helps I can post the actual refusal letter from UKBA which basically cited 4 reasons for the refusal;

1. Didn't believe relationship was genuine or that we provided sufficient evidence of one
2. Inconsistency in my duration of visit and my partners duration of visit (only a month different) and lack of any flight dates or clear travel details.
3. Doubts over my partners allowance/income due to varying amounts on bank statements provided and inconsistency with her estimated total annual amount stated on application, and their estimation based on the statements.
4. Concern of a Visa overstay risk.

In closing, UKBA denied any appeal right (we felt this rather harsh and wondered why, is that normal?), and said a further application was likely to be met with refusal, unless as I said above, there was a 'significant change in circumstances'.

[CR001]

There is no appeal right for visitor visas.

Unlikely she will get a visitor visa given her other two country refusals.

Without substantial ties to her home country, she will be refused.

The same does not apply to a spouse visa if you were to marry abroad and then apply. There is obviously a risk due to the US refusal reason though as HO (no longer UKBA) takes fraud and deception on applications (any) very seriously.

[morphix]

Thanks for the quick reply and insight which is really appreciated.

I guess it's plan B then, sell my home and leave the UK!!

[CR001]

I didn't say you can't apply for a spouse visa if you are married. I merely stated there is a risk as the same information is asked for in the spouse visa form about previous refusals.

[morphix]

Yeah I understand, but nevertheless its a risk she will be refused again right, due to the past history and her lack of any home ties?

My reason for wanting to leave the UK is not solely due to this Visa issue either, I planned to leave anyway, so this just pushes me to do it sooner, and move somewhere better where they don't have such strict Visa laws and my partner/wife can come too.

[Wanderer]

Yeah I understand, but nevertheless its a risk she will be refused again right, due to the past history and her lack of any home ties?

My reason for wanting to leave the UK is not solely due to this Visa issue either, I planned to leave anyway, so this just pushes me to do it sooner, and move somewhere better where they don't have such strict Visa laws and my partner/wife can come too.

I've travelled and lived in all sorts of places, sorry to say easy visa requirement = shiithole place to live. If one is 'of an age' access to national health care is important, unless one is minted.

Of all the 1st World States, UK immigration is the easiest, and on a par with the cheapest, believe me.

[vinny]

In closing, UKBA denied any appeal right (we felt this rather harsh and wondered why, is that normal?)

For visitors, there is a right of appeal, but only on limited grounds, such as Human Rights grounds. This leads to an absurd situation, where

...it is simply not open to a Judge to allow an appeal on the grounds that the Judge is satisfied that the requirements of the Immigration Rules are met.

Surprisingly, subsequently, for the categories where there still is a right of appeal under the Immigration rules,

Grounds of appeal

(1)An appeal under section 82(1) against an immigration decision must be brought on one or more of the following grounds—
(a)that the decision is not in accordance with immigration rules;
...

was removed! Leading to the same absurdity?

[vinny]

Satisfying the Immigration Rules enough for Article 8 success:

That leaves the question of whether the tribunal is required to make a decision on article 8 requirements within the Rules i.e. whether there are insurmountable obstacles, before or in order to make a decision about article 8 outside the Rules. The policy of the Secretary of State as expressed in the Rules is not to be ignored when a decision about article 8 is to be made outside the Rules. An evaluation of the question whether there are insurmountable obstacles is a relevant factor because considerable weight is to be placed on the Secretary of State's policy as reflected in the Rules of the circumstances in which a foreign national partner should be granted leave to remain. Accordingly, the tribunal should undertake an evaluation of the insurmountable obstacles test within the Rules in order to inform an evaluation outside the Rules because that formulates the strength of the public policy in immigration control 'in the case before it', which is what the Supreme Court in Hesham Ali (at [50]) held was to be taken into account. That has the benefit that where a person satisfies the Rules, whether or not by reference to an article 8 informed requirement, then this will be positively determinative of that person's article 8 appeal, provided their case engages article 8(1), for the very reason that it would then be disproportionate for that person to be removed.

[vinny]

Implementing allowed appeals

Granting leave

Where the allowed appeal requires a grant of leave you should normally grant the leave set out in the determination. If no leave is identified the list below sets out common scenarios and the action you should take; the list is not exhaustive:

• where the determination finds that the relevant Immigration Rules are met, you should grant the leave or entry clearance set out in the relevant rules
• where the determination states that the requirements of a specific policy are met, you should grant the leave or entry clearance set out in the specific policy
....