Irish Citizenship application (Form 8) - How did you organise your application?

[markem]

My wife and I have recently submitted applications and wondered how others have organised the additional documents? We figured that a well organised application would make it easier/quicker for a decision to me made, though obviously this is no guarantee!

To make it as easy as possible for them, we:

• Edited the PDF and printed it rather than writing on it so it was easily legible. Obviously we signed it by hand, but everything else was typed.
• Put everything into a hard cover folder with clear pockets
• Made a title page with key personal details on it
• Made an index page at the front that listed every document being provided (including all the address proofs)
• Made a cover page for each pocket with the title of the document (same wording as on Form 8.)
• Made sure it was all in the same order as requested on Form 8.
• Put sticky tape over the top of the pocket with passports in it (as they were prone to falling out if it was turned upside down)
• Got rid of any extra material (e.g. the 10 pages of instructions at the start of the form)
• Put a separator page between each year of address proof documents

Any other advice or ideas people have?

[max307]

Well the only thing I can add is that the case worker assigned to your application will be very lucky because won’t have to do much work other than double check all your documents.

Good Luck and hope you hear the good news soon!

[bobu2kadu]

Hi there,

Organizing your application is quietly frankly a fruitless exercise. The instructions are clear, in terms of the documents required , it would suffice to just order the documents precisely as per the checklist. A well organized application is no guarantee for a quick approval, especially with the threat of a no deal brexit looming large, processing timelines are bound to get slow.

Remember : Excessive organization is also confusing for some people, would irritate them and delay your application.

Regards
Bobu

[Iggy4]

I sent all my documents completely unsorted and all over the place and got reply within 24 hours that my application went to the 2nd stage.Application is based on EU citizenship and it was sent beginning of Jul 2018. Honestly even I was surprised to get an answer in a day.

[thegoodaulleo]

I just paid a Solicitor to organise everything to the best he could.

[Iggy4]

I heard if you apply via solicitor applications tend to last longer then a normal one for INIS to make a decision. You can find some info on this forum. No idea why but who knows.

[thegoodaulleo]

I heard if you apply via solicitor applications tend to last longer then a normal one for INIS to make a decision. You can find some info on this forum. No idea why but who knows.

Actually the only reason I applied through a solicitor is because, apparently, it's was quicker to get approved.

[Iggy4]

THE INFORMATION BELOW SHOULD BE USEFUL/HELPFUL TO SOME OF OUR MEMBERS HERE ON THIS FORUM (PLEASE NOTE THIS IS NOT OFFICIAL BUT SOMEONE'S CANDID OPINION BASED ON EXPERIENCE HANDLING APPLICATIONS FOR OVER FIFTY FAMILY, FRIENDS ETC.)

Simple time line that always work : (Following is for normal 5 years cases : Spouses of Irish subjects get it quicker than rest but not ALWAYS )

First letter / acknowledgement = 3 days to 2 weeks maximum . ( usually 1 week )

Second Stage Letter = 4 week to 8 weeks ( usually 6 weeks ) Will increase by a few days if they asked for anything .

Now is the stress stage : Approval letter

Look at date of your second stage letter ... Add 3 months 25 Days . ( Give or take 5 days ) You should have an approval letter . If not you been naughty somewhere .

in the waiting time simply email them if you are not sure about how is your application progressing .

The above include

Garda checks = 4 weeks
Revenue / Benefit / Social checks = 1 to 2 days each ( usually 1 day )
Advance Stage 3 to 6 weeks ( usually 4 )
Minister office = 3 to 4 weeks ( usually 3 )

Does Benefits/ Social of any kind delays you application ===== No
Do they give approval while you are on benefits / social welfare or were in last 3 years ===== Yes

Traffic and other offences delays = Not at all if you have not gone to court .

Court appeared and cleared or found guilty or you went guilty yourself or what ever the case : Delay 3 to 6 months in approval on top of normal time above . ( This applies even if cases was strck off or you were fined and paid it )

Not paid fines / unknown fines etc = Can be deferred for 1 year by minister ( Reapply after 1 year ) 50% of cases .

Away for more than 6 weeks = No problem as far as you declare with a valid reason .

What to avoid : Solicitors esp XYZ , XXXXX etc Department delays the cases as they believe you have something serious to hide / fight for . Otherwise why will you use a solicitor for a so simple application . This is what they think now so don't gun me down for that , take your own decisions . Nearly 20 cases who applied through solicitors are delayed for me from 1 month to 6 months .

[CR001]

What to avoid : Solicitors esp XYZ , XXXXX etc Department delays the cases as they believe you have something serious to hide / fight for . Otherwise why will you use a solicitor for a so simple application . This is what they think now so don't gun me down for that , take your own decisions . Nearly 20 cases who applied through solicitors are delayed for me from 1 month to 6 months .

Kindly DO NOT name or post any details of solicitors on the forum.

[gorgeous]

THE INFORMATION BELOW SHOULD BE USEFUL/HELPFUL TO SOME OF OUR MEMBERS HERE ON THIS FORUM (PLEASE NOTE THIS IS NOT OFFICIAL BUT SOMEONE'S CANDID OPINION BASED ON EXPERIENCE HANDLING APPLICATIONS FOR OVER FIFTY FAMILY, FRIENDS ETC.)

Simple time line that always work : (Following is for normal 5 years cases : Spouses of Irish subjects get it quicker than rest but not ALWAYS )

First letter / acknowledgement = 3 days to 2 weeks maximum . ( usually 1 week )

Second Stage Letter = 4 week to 8 weeks ( usually 6 weeks ) Will increase by a few days if they asked for anything .

Now is the stress stage : Approval letter

Look at date of your second stage letter ... Add 3 months 25 Days . ( Give or take 5 days ) You should have an approval letter . If not you been naughty somewhere .

in the waiting time simply email them if you are not sure about how is your application progressing .

The above include

Garda checks = 4 weeks
Revenue / Benefit / Social checks = 1 to 2 days each ( usually 1 day )
Advance Stage 3 to 6 weeks ( usually 4 )
Minister office = 3 to 4 weeks ( usually 3 )

Does Benefits/ Social of any kind delays you application ===== No
Do they give approval while you are on benefits / social welfare or were in last 3 years ===== Yes

Traffic and other offences delays = Not at all if you have not gone to court .

Court appeared and cleared or found guilty or you went guilty yourself or what ever the case : Delay 3 to 6 months in approval on top of normal time above . ( This applies even if cases was strck off or you were fined and paid it )

Not paid fines / unknown fines etc = Can be deferred for 1 year by minister ( Reapply after 1 year ) 50% of cases .

Away for more than 6 weeks = No problem as far as you declare with a valid reason .

What to avoid : Solicitors esp XYZ , XXXXX etc Department delays the cases as they believe you have something serious to hide / fight for . Otherwise why will you use a solicitor for a so simple application . This is what they think now so don't gun me down for that , take your own decisions . Nearly 20 cases who applied through solicitors are delayed for me from 1 month to 6 months .

I think it’s important to remember that if they don’t have a ceremony date they just won’t send any approvals. So it also can delay your application, even if everything’s correct. Delaying an application for more than 6 months doesn’t mean that someone’s been naughty...

[markem]

I've analysed posts on this site from 46 users in the 2017 and 2018 timeline posts. This gave me average timelines that are similar, but maybe a little longer than what you had. These timelines are for applications from Non-EU applicants with Stamp 4 residency. In my sample, I also checked EU applications, these were significantly shorter (around 30% shorter on each stage).

First letter / acknowledgement = 3 days to 2 weeks maximum . ( usually 1 week )

I found an average of 24 calendar days from application - so 3 to 4 weeks.

Second Stage Letter = 4 week to 8 weeks ( usually 6 weeks ) Will increase by a few days if they asked for anything.

I found an average of 150 calendar days from application, though some long examples in 2017 increased this. 2018 seems to be under 100 days (or 14 weeks)

Now is the stress stage : Approval letter
Look at date of your second stage letter ... Add 3 months 25 Days . ( Give or take 5 days )

I found an average of 245 calendar days from application, or 97 days from 2nd letter - so yes, around 3-4 months.

[Iggy4]

Hi Markem,

Great analysis, regarding EU application my friend got approval within two months and he is from Germany, but I have also a polish friend and she waited almost 2 years and funny thing she works in Dublin as xxxxxxx. Only option is to be calm and to wait and hopefully everyone will be happy at the end of the line.

[markem]

Some more analysis on processing times, based on ~60 timeline posts to this site.

Horizontal axis is the date the application was sent in.
Left hand axis is days to acknowledge.
Right hand axis is days to 2nd letter and days to approval.

What I get from it is:

• processing times were high for applications in the first half of 2017, but perhaps are decreasing - especially days to acknowledge (the easy part of the process!).
• almost all acknowledgements are done under 25 days from application date, in 2018.
• 2nd letters seem to be coming in under 200 days from application date, most likely EU/UK or spousal reasons.
• almost all approvals come in under 400 days from application date.

[2pac4ever]

Some more analysis on processing times, based on ~60 timeline posts to this site.

Horizontal axis is the date the application was sent in.
Left hand axis is days to acknowledge.
Right hand axis is days to 2nd letter and days to approval.

What I get from it is:

• processing times were high for applications in the first half of 2017, but perhaps are decreasing - especially days to acknowledge (the easy part of the process!).
• almost all acknowledgements are done under 25 days from application date, in 2018.
• 2nd letters seem to be coming in under 200 days from application date, most likely EU/UK or spousal reasons.
• almost all approvals come in under 400 days from application date.

nice analysis @WaterWrit. I think there’s a catch with the meaning of the second letter. Most people think that it is the same as the second stage letter. In fact their wordings are quite different. My understanding is that the second letter is only sent if you’ve requested an update on your application after some time. Whereas the second stage is sent especially when they still have your old passports with them. In the second stage letter, it is clearly stated that your application has been initially assessed and has proceeded to the second stage of the processing. Other than that you’re pretty spot on.

[Alixlboy]

Some more analysis on processing times, based on ~60 timeline posts to this site.

Horizontal axis is the date the application was sent in.
Left hand axis is days to acknowledge.
Right hand axis is days to 2nd letter and days to approval.

What I get from it is:

• processing times were high for applications in the first half of 2017, but perhaps are decreasing - especially days to acknowledge (the easy part of the process!).
• almost all acknowledgements are done under 25 days from application date, in 2018.
• 2nd letters seem to be coming in under 200 days from application date, most likely EU/UK or spousal reasons.
• almost all approvals come in under 400 days from application date.

You are a genius lol

[IggyB]

this statistics is amazing, always brings me to my MBA studies , where have you been so far

[bobu2kadu]

someone should explain these stats to people who are waiting from 2016. Citizenship as a process is lopsided, biased, unpredictable & ludicrous. If you have ever invested in funds, you might have noticed this warning , "past returns are no guarantee for future values". I am sure if you do the same exercise one year down the line you will get a completely different perspective on things .

[Mal111]

these stats of markem doesn't co ordinate with the actual results
note the actual position at 25/04/2018 below

all these applications were pending at 25/04/2018 these figures below are from inis

the year in which applications were received vs number of applicants
2014 and earlier 340
2015 330
2016 1700
2017 7330
2018 to date 2770

Total 12470

I didn't use chart but numbers are easy to read
link is below
http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PQ-25-04-2018-112

[markem]

these stats of markem doesn't co ordinate with the actual results
note the actual position at 25/04/2018 below...

What do you mean? I think that lines up pretty accurately. Looks like 2017 had a high number of applications, meaning that processing times were longer.

[Mal111]

I don't think you understood the table its not for how many people apply in those years its for how many application pending since those years
these were the people still waiting for approval

example
there are 340 people who applied in 2014 or earlier didn't received there approval up to 25/04/2018 meaning they are waiting for almost 4 years
there could be 8000 people who applied in 2014

[markem]

I don't think you understood the table its not for how many people apply in those years its for how many application pending since those years
these were the people still waiting for approval

example
there are 340 people who applied in 2014 or earlier didn't received there approval up to 25/04/2018 meaning they are waiting for almost 4 years
there could be 8000 people who applied in 2014

Ok, replied without completely understanding. But the number waiting that long is a small %, so I think the numbers in my chart still make sense.

Compare:

• 2014: 340 undecided applications vs 15,474 total applications (2.2%)
• 2015: 330 undecided applications vs 12,712 total applications (2.6%)
• 2016: 1,700 undecided applications vs 13,011 total applications (13.1%)
• 2017: 7,330 undecided vs unknown total ... say 12,000 (61%)

Cold comfort to those in that are waiting that long, but for the vast majority the decision times are measured in months rather than years.

[zaza7625]

THE INFORMATION BELOW SHOULD BE USEFUL/HELPFUL TO SOME OF OUR MEMBERS HERE ON THIS FORUM (PLEASE NOTE THIS IS NOT OFFICIAL BUT SOMEONE'S CANDID OPINION BASED ON EXPERIENCE HANDLING APPLICATIONS FOR OVER FIFTY FAMILY, FRIENDS ETC.)

Simple time line that always work : (Following is for normal 5 years cases : Spouses of Irish subjects get it quicker than rest but not ALWAYS )

First letter / acknowledgement = 3 days to 2 weeks maximum . ( usually 1 week )

Second Stage Letter = 4 week to 8 weeks ( usually 6 weeks ) Will increase by a few days if they asked for anything .

Now is the stress stage : Approval letter

Look at date of your second stage letter ... Add 3 months 25 Days . ( Give or take 5 days ) You should have an approval letter . If not you been naughty somewhere .

in the waiting time simply email them if you are not sure about how is your application progressing .

The above include

Garda checks = 4 weeks
Revenue / Benefit / Social checks = 1 to 2 days each ( usually 1 day )
Advance Stage 3 to 6 weeks ( usually 4 )
Minister office = 3 to 4 weeks ( usually 3 )

Does Benefits/ Social of any kind delays you application ===== No
Do they give approval while you are on benefits / social welfare or were in last 3 years ===== Yes

Traffic and other offences delays = Not at all if you have not gone to court .

Court appeared and cleared or found guilty or you went guilty yourself or what ever the case : Delay 3 to 6 months in approval on top of normal time above . ( This applies even if cases was strck off or you were fined and paid it )

Not paid fines / unknown fines etc = Can be deferred for 1 year by minister ( Reapply after 1 year ) 50% of cases .

Away for more than 6 weeks = No problem as far as you declare with a valid reason .

What to avoid : Solicitors esp XYZ , XXXXX etc Department delays the cases as they believe you have something serious to hide / fight for . Otherwise why will you use a solicitor for a so simple application . This is what they think now so don't gun me down for that , take your own decisions . Nearly 20 cases who applied through solicitors are delayed for me from 1 month to 6 months .

hi Iggy
I have a question like that: as you mentioned that if a person does not have any criminal offence and has not been sent to court no problem, what about the adult caution? As i was told adult caution is not considered as a any kind of criminal offence and it should not be an obstacle for applying citizenship. what is your opinion, do i need to mention in application for about adult caution or not? And second question: as i know in order to get the application ready solicitor has to stamp it, otherwise it won’t go through. Please enlighten me about that as well. Thank you

[bobu2kadu]

2014: 340 undecided applications vs 15,474 total applications (2.2%)
2015: 330 undecided applications vs 12,712 total applications (2.6%)
2016: 1,700 undecided applications vs 13,011 total applications (13.1%)
2017: 7,330 undecided vs unknown total ... say 12,000 (61%)

You are still not getting it. The numbers still have no co-relation is the point being made, sitting in 2017, we would have looked at the past years and would have expected more approvals and more citizen but alas, in 2017 the percentage of waiting members jumped from 13% to 61% ....

so no matter how many charts and diagrams you draw, you are only stating actual facts from the past which have no bearing on applications that are yet to be made or are still in progress, apart from the fact that you would most probably experience a delay due to the build up of backlogs from previous years.

[markem]

You are still not getting it. The numbers still have no co-relation is the point being made, sitting in 2017, we would have looked at the past years and would have expected more approvals and more citizen but alas, in 2017 the percentage of waiting members jumped from 13% to 61% ....

And you are jumping to conclusions...

The "jump" isn't from 13% ... the numbers of undecided applications are from @Mal111's link to stats as at 25 April 2018. Of course there will be more on hand from 2017 than 2016, it's only 4 months on from the end of the year.

Based on some other information (dail questions here and here) I think the % of 2016 applications on hand in April 2017 is more like from 40%.

61% of 2017 applications on hand in April 2018 is based on a guess of 12,000 total applications in 2017. If the number of total applications is higher, then the % on hand could be similar to the previous year. So I'm not sure there is a jump.

[bobu2kadu]

Lets agree to disagree, the fallacy of your argument is the numbers on your chart which have no co-relation. They are statement of facts. Your charts are not a representation of how decisions are being made when it comes to approving applications. Even at this point in time you cannot say how many applications will be left open at the end of the year. (unless you are a fortune teller)

In Statistics for a normally distributed set of items , you can reasonably predict a POSSIBLE outcome but my friend citizenship applications don't represent a normally distributed set and hence trying to fit them in some form of chart to define future outcomes for others is no more than ridiculous fantasy