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Moderators: Casa, archigabe, CR001, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, Administrator
Absolutely agree. hassan5805, if you provide us the reasons for refusal, we may be able to give some feedback with the complete information. What I've seen from many cases where the parents have been refused a visit visa several times, it's because they and their sponsor have been unable to demonstrate sufficient family ties back in their home country.TL5451 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:54 amYou also state you have applied three times. My advice is to stop applying until your circumstances have changed. You don't want to enter into a tail-spin of constant visa denials. Repeatedly applying for a UK visit visa shows a determination and wanting to enter the UK. There are many, many other countries your father can visit before he visits the UK.
You complain to HO/UKVI and NOT to VFS. It is not VFS that makes the decisions on visas, they are only a third party agent.I will complain them first to VFS if no satisfactory response then will complaint to home office .
Hope you have deep pockets as it can cost a fortune and if you lose, you have to pay HOs costs.My last resort will be Judicial Review.
Years of abuse of older relatives arriving with visas and the just staying has caused heavy scrutiny. Many don't qualify for any other visa route and WANT to come and live here to be near their families who have left them behind and to get free healthcare etc and many have tried to do just that via a visit visa to change to another category once here.I cant believe why someone wants to live here when they spend their 65 years in there home country .
Thanks for your reply, that means they dont take decision on individual case isnt? they do make their mind up first that will be refused or that will not be refused?CR001 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:31 amYou complain to HO/UKVI and NOT to VFS. It is not VFS that makes the decisions on visas, they are only a third party agent.I will complain them first to VFS if no satisfactory response then will complaint to home office .
Hope you have deep pockets as it can cost a fortune and if you lose, you have to pay HOs costs.My last resort will be Judicial Review.
Years of abuse of older relatives arriving with visas and the just staying has caused heavy scrutiny. Many don't qualify for any other visa route and WANT to come and live here to be near their families who have left them behind and to get free healthcare etc and many have tried to do just that via a visit visa to change to another category once here.I cant believe why someone wants to live here when they spend their 65 years in there home country .
That is because EU law provides for that in case of non-British EEA citizens of other EEA member-states residing in the UK. So you really can't base a legal argument on that basis.hassan5805 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:49 amI can see that all other people who are EU nationals and even if they gets benefits they are sponsoring their brother’s, sister’s uncle’s and nephew’s all are getting visas without any hesitation.
No, they do look at the merits of each individual case. But part of those merits is, will the person leave the UK at the end of their stay, or will he try to reside/overstay in the UK.hassan5805 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:41 pmthat means they dont take decision on individual case isnt?
Were all of these documents in English or accompanied by a translation?hassan5805 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:49 am
I will explain reasons for refusal in details.
1) Property own by my father
One of the reason for refusal in September 2018 was property owned by my father being bought in 1987 but no other prove was provided that property still owned by my father.
We have attached property deed, Property tax paid, electricity bill, gas bill and property evaluation. Those thigs were provided in both application but I do not understand what other prove we can provide to demonstrate that property is in my father name.
Some documents with handwritten figures were mentioned in the refusal - were those your explanations of the deposits? Was the relationship to the bank statements not clear?hassan5805 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:49 am2) Unexplained deposits
Some money being paid into my father personal account and they wanted to know about explanation about all money. We have provided explanation who money was paid into my father account and we have bought another property and we have attached documents for that too. Those have been completely ignored by caseworker.
If there is no verifiable paper trail, they can't really assess the business. Just because something is customary in a country does not mean it's okay for a visa application to another country. Have you thought about getting your father a business account and generating verifiable bank statements?hassan5805 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:49 am3) Business
We clearly wrote in application that my father mainly trade in cash and there is no business bank account and this point was completely ignored. We have attached all the suppliers, customers and logistics invoices of business to demonstrate business transactions.
Would the family tree not show if family members for instance got married and moved to another city, passed away or moved abroad?hassan5805 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:49 am4) Family Tree
We provided family tree dated 2017- No one’s family change I do not why they think I shold have provided new family tree. We have no addition in family then why they think family tree will be change.
Looking forward to hearing from your response.
Kind regard
Hihassan5805 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:25 pmHi all, thanks for your reply -
My frustration is I have provided all the documents why they ignored.
In Sep 2018 they refused application because too much money in my father account and how I respond to that which was being ignored.
I have identified all transactions when I paid money into my father account through my bank statements - one Vehicle my father sold for around £5k we identify those transactions plus money transferred from my brother account into my father account-
All that money paid to seller for the property being bought by me and my brother we even attached property deed with all the payments to sellers- we both put money in father account so we both can buy property in Pakistan on partnership - my other brother do business in Pakistan - who else you can trust other than your parents - I transferred money into my father account-
I am Uk tax payer and doing small business and employing 8 British citizen - they all work for met company -
I have attached bank statement with closing balance £70k
I have also offered £20k bond if my father don’t go back I offered everything what I could
My father doing small business in small city and I specifically mentioned he doesn’t have seprate bank statement and his earning only £2k a year
The trade he does in Pakistan is full exempt
Tax he paid on his property he own rental income
I don’t know why home office doing this to us
Thanks all
Brother I think you missunderstood previous refusals and failed to properly clear the refusal points. Obviously before you was been refused because you showed your dad as unemployed. Now in last application you showed him as a Market Trader that just shows you are trying to make it up to get the visa. You mentioned him earning 500k but you submitted tax return of 300k. Then you failed to justify his transactions in bank. Then ECO wrote about large transactions in bank which you said was help from family but looks like you didnt provide remittance reciepts or anything like that. It just shows you borrowed money and made up your statement.hassan5805 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:43 amThis is actual refusal
REASONS FOR REFUSAL NRA v 1.0
You have applied for a visa to visit the UK.
In deciding whether you meet the requirements of Appendix V: of the Immigration Rules for
visitors (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration ... sitorrules),
I have considered:
your application and any additional relevant information you have provided with it
your immigration history
The decision
I have refused your application for a visit visa because I am not satisfied that you meet the
requirements of paragraph V 4.2 – V 4.10 of Appendix V because:
YHaving reviewed your bank statement, I note that you have chosen not to provide aCode: Select all
ou are planning to visit your son and family in the UK for a period of 21 days. I recognise that family visits are important. I must consider the information regarding your sponsor’s support of your visit separately in my assessment of your application. To consider whether or not I am satisfied that your intentions are as stated and that you meet the requirements of the Immigration Rules I must assess your own personal and financial circumstances. The onus is on you to qualify for entry clearance based on your own circumstances and your own intentions. You have said that your son will help you with this visit by accommodating you and paying your expenses to the value of £3,500 whilst you are in the United Kingdom and I am satisfied that they are in a position to do so based on documents provided. While I take that into account in assessing your proposed maintenance and accommodation in the UK, this is only one aspect of the visitor rules and this sponsorship alone does not satisfy me of your own intention to leave the UK on completion of your visit.[/code I am aware that you were previously refused entry clearance on 26/09/2018 under visa application number ABDH/2179017. I have considered your previous application, in addition to the documents and information you have submitted in this, your current, application and in assessing your application in its entirety, I am not satisfied that you have met the Immigration Rules on this occasion. You have stated that you are a self-employed Grain Market Trader earning PKR 500,000 (£2,559.94) per annum. You state you do not have any additional income and you hold savings of £1,401. In support of your application, you have submitted a personal bank statement issued by Allied bank (account ending 0043) and the closing balance of the account was held at PKR 281,861.72 (£1,443.10) on 19/8/19. [code]
bank statement or other documents relating to the business. I note that you were
previously refused a visit visa for this reason and I am not satisfied that you have
addressed this. I also note that it shows several large deposits entering the account. I
acknowledge that you have stated you receive funds from your family, however, I am
not satisfied that the documents before me demonstrate this and this undermines the
credibility of your application.
In further support of your application, you have provided a copy of your tax
documents stating your taxable income in Pakistan. However, this document shows
you earn a total of PKR 300,000 (£1,535.96) for the current tax year, which is less
than the amount you have declared you earn from your self-employment. This
undermines the credibility of your application.
I also note that you have submitted a letter of support from your son in the UK and an
email thread showing that he contacted an MP on your behalf. The email from the
MP stated that each application is assessed by an ECO on its own merits. I note that
you have submitted documents showing that your family own property, a document
showing that you sold a motor vehicle, various handwritten documents showing
figures and various documents that are in Urdu. However, none of these documents
show how your income is generated or how you are supported in your home country.
I am not satisfied that you have shown an accurate reflection of your personal and
financial circumstances.
You have provided documents that are not in English or Welsh. The official
Government website
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... file/54969
2/Visitor_Supporting_Documents_Guide_-_English_version.pdf includes the
following information about translations:
“If you submit a document that is not in English or Welsh, it must be accompanied by
a full translation that can be independently verified by the Home Office. Each
translated document must contain:
• confirmation from the translator that it is an accurate translation of the original
document
• the date of the translation
• the translator's full name and signature
• the translator's contact details”
This information is in the public domain, and it is expected that applicants will
familiarise themselves with the requirements prior to submitting a visa application. An
ECO cannot consider a document in another language if that document is not
accompanied by the requisite translation. I am therefore unable to attribute this
document to you.
I have considered the documents and information you have provided about your
personal and economic circumstances. You have stated that you are widowed with 3
dependent children, visiting your immediate family in the UK. Whilst you have
provided a NADRA Family registration certificate, this document is dated in 2017, is
therefore outdated and in isolation does not demonstrate the current personal
circumstances of your family remaining in your home country. I am not satisfied you
have shown that your ties to your home country are sufficient incentive to leave the
UK at the end of your proposed visit.
Given the above, I am not satisfied that you have accurately presented your
circumstances and therefore your intentions in applying to enter the United Kingdom.
This undermines the credibility of your application to the extent that I am not satisfied
that you are genuinely seeking entry as a visitor or intend to leave the UK at the end
of your visit. Your application for a visit visa is refused under paragraph V4.2 (a) and
(c) of the Immigration Rules.
Rate of exchange £1 = PKR 195.3