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delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

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Mal111
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by Mal111 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:23 pm

makhtar terrible idea !!

don't ruin one of the biggest day for your fellow applicants just because you didn't get yours yet!
imagine people happily walking out with their certs and see people protesting
plus you need a permission for protest that you wont get and if you did one without permission you will get arrested and you can kiss your citizenship application good bye!

Hello001
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by Hello001 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:19 pm

Mal111 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:23 pm
makhtar terrible idea !!

don't ruin one of the biggest day for your fellow applicants just because you didn't get yours yet!
imagine people happily walking out with their certs and see people protesting
plus you need a permission for protest that you wont get and if you did one without permission you will get arrested and you can kiss your citizenship application good bye!
well said @Mal111 :D
@makhtar, be patient and just pray/hope to get yours soon.

Paddy_Leprechaun
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by Paddy_Leprechaun » Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:40 pm

Mal111 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:23 pm
makhtar terrible idea !!

don't ruin one of the biggest day for your fellow applicants just because you didn't get yours yet!
imagine people happily walking out with their certs and see people protesting
plus you need a permission for protest that you wont get and if you did one without permission you will get arrested and you can kiss your citizenship application good bye!
Mal111, I beg to differ on some points here. Everyone in Ireland is allowed to do a peaceful assembly and express their opinion. As far I understood (not a legal expert) that as long as you call it a peaceful assembly rather than a protest you are grand and there should not be an issue with police.
Also, I have a different opinion on ruining the day for fellow applicants. In fact, all those fellow applicants must also raise their voice so what suffering they have to face, other should not be facing in future. Here everyone might have a different opinion, but I can promise that whenever I get it, I won't shy away to raise my voice against this awful system. But till the time I get it, I am still a coward ;)

But at the same time, I agree with you that things can go horribly wrong as well. Perhaps, asking some NGO or politicians who are known to raise their voice on public concerns to do a peaceful assembly on your behalf is a good idea.

rockyguy
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by rockyguy » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:18 am

Mal111 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:23 pm
makhtar terrible idea !!

don't ruin one of the biggest day for your fellow applicants just because you didn't get yours yet!
imagine people happily walking out with their certs and see people protesting
plus you need a permission for protest that you wont get and if you did one without permission you will get arrested and you can kiss your citizenship application good bye!
I agree with your Makhtar. Protest is a good thing but doing on the ceremony day will be totally counterproductive. I am the one who's waiting here longer than anyone else. Applied since june 2016 and recently got "advanced stage" letter. I contacted some well knows lawyer in Dublin and he advised me to go got judicial review. I know my case is simple and straight so why the hell should i wait for 3 years for just a bloody decision. One of my friend also did the same thing and his citizenship was refused for some reason. he challenged the decision and after 1-2 months he got his approval and going to his ceremony today. Believe me they are not going to approve our files unless we don't take legal action against them which is Judicial Review.

Stress
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by Stress » Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:44 pm

Rockguy i am with you we can go for judicial review.. i am also waiting for since august 2016

Statusquo73
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by Statusquo73 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:23 pm

Hi Guys,

I would suggest that we should contact a journalist. For example, I have noticed that there is a journalist that wrote about Visa appointment system sold to the student. I think it was one month ago. That news created a big awareness between people. Inis had to respond to those allegations and acted fast for resolving the issue.

In my personal opinion Media is the strongest tool/weapon. We should write to a journalist in relation to our issue. Actually, this could be a good topic for them.

What do you think guys? Let's write a powerful statement to a journalist and let them bring this to the Irish public. This is an unlawful situation.
We do not deserve this. They should just give us an answer within 1 year. YES OR NO. That's it.

I happy to collaborate with you if you are into it.

max307
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by max307 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:55 pm

Hey everyone,

I just wanted to add my point of view to the thread.

First of all, I do get your frustrations and understand why some of you are anxious waiting to get approved or not. It's certainly a very stressing process to go through.

The only piece I'm struggling to understand is what are you protesting against? What are the basis of your complaint? I don't want to sound like a broken record but legally speaking no one is profiling or doing anything illegal – naturalisation in Ireland is a privilege and not a right and the Minister is granting citizenship at his/her own discretion, that should be clear for everyone at this point. No peaceful demonstration, protest or media outlet will force the Irish government to expedite any application for naturalisation because naturalisation itself is not a right so no one is violating any of your rights or the rights or those that are still waiting since 2016.

On the government side of the argument they can easily justify delay on applications with the 200 illegal immigrants that have been deported in 2018 as a result of Operation Vantage for suspected marriages of convenience and immigration fraud. Unfortunately if you are from South East Asia expect your application to go through under considerable scrutiny and that's not profiling or illegal, the majority of deported nationals under Operation Vantage are from countries in South East Asia.

Since you are the weakest link on this chain I would suggest to be patient, wait and reply to all their request of extra documentation as soon as possible. If you have a clean record then it's only matter of time before you all are Irish citizens.
I am not a lawyer or immigration counselor, all views expressed are my own, my comments do not constitute legal advice.

Paddy_Leprechaun
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by Paddy_Leprechaun » Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:30 pm

max307 wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:55 pm
Hey everyone,

I just wanted to add my point of view to the thread.

First of all, I do get your frustrations and understand why some of you are anxious waiting to get approved or not. It's certainly a very stressing process to go through.

The only piece I'm struggling to understand is what are you protesting against? What are the basis of your complaint? I don't want to sound like a broken record but legally speaking no one is profiling or doing anything illegal – naturalisation in Ireland is a privilege and not a right and the Minister is granting citizenship at his/her own discretion, that should be clear for everyone at this point. No peaceful demonstration, protest or media outlet will force the Irish government to expedite any application for naturalisation because naturalisation itself is not a right so no one is violating any of your rights or the rights or those that are still waiting since 2016.

On the government side of the argument they can easily justify delay on applications with the 200 illegal immigrants that have been deported in 2018 as a result of Operation Vantage for suspected marriages of convenience and immigration fraud. Unfortunately if you are from South East Asia expect your application to go through under considerable scrutiny and that's not profiling or illegal, the majority of deported nationals under Operation Vantage are from countries in South East Asia.

Since you are the weakest link on this chain I would suggest to be patient, wait and reply to all their request of extra documentation as soon as possible. If you have a clean record then it's only matter of time before you all are Irish citizens.
Hi Max,
it seems like you really do like to copy/paste this statement about naturalisation being a privilege, not a right ;) Have seen quite many posts by you always quoting this statement.

I guess what you are struggling to understand is the basic difference between the discretion of Minister and selective exercise of that discretion. Minister is right to refuse any application by giving a valid reason and then apply that reason to all applicants in that scenario. But If the department selectively exercises its rights on few and keep others in the limbo then it is a question of being unfairly treated which is a violation of basic rights. All judicial reviews against INIS are based on it. Nobody here is forcing the department to accept or deny an application, the issue is not making a decision within a reasonable time. We have at least a few examples shared here where a judicial review enforce department to make a decision. See this example https://www.irishlegal.com/article/high ... roceedings


She lost the case on recovering the cost of judicial review by managed to get a writ to enforce department taking a decision on the application and finally the department approved it in a haste.


As suggested by most of the people on this forum that the judicial review puts pressure on the department and at the same time department wants the judiciary to take action on difficult decisions so they have covered themselves of any future issue if they make a wrong decision.

The protest seems an easier way to demonstrate frustration before judicial review as the judicial review is costly and there is no guarantee to recover the costs even if you win your case.

max307
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by max307 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:31 pm

True that! :D You will be surprised how easily people forget that very own statement on a daily basis.

I do respect your point but do you or anyone in this forum has actual proof of that "selective exercise of discretion"? Or is it just speculation? I feel like this topic of delay in applications is becoming a conspiracy theory and that's causing even more distress to those patiently waiting.

Please do not take my questions as a personal attack but what "basic rights" are being violated here? The rights of non EU national are not being violated at any stage during the processing of the application; they are able to work, travel, study, get married, their kids are Irish citizens, etc. Is it a "basic right" not to have to wait for an application to be processed?

In a 2011 ruling the High Court determined that even though the Minister has “ABSOLUTE” discretion in respect of applications for naturalisation, that discretion does not extend to making people wait indefinitely, and without explanation, for a decision in their case. The government can get around that very easily, they are providing explanations on your application every time you are inquiring over the phone or e-mail, now if the explanation isn't what you want to hear that's a different topic all together.

I feel like unless INIS is doing something illegal protests, media outlets articles and judicial reviews are only going to cause even more harm because the government will reply with extra scrutiny on a department already short on staff and resources, hence longer turn around times.
I am not a lawyer or immigration counselor, all views expressed are my own, my comments do not constitute legal advice.

Paddy_Leprechaun
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by Paddy_Leprechaun » Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:27 pm

Nothing personal, all discussions here are efforts to try to shed more lights on issues face and express personal opinions. In my opinion;

It is already selective exercise of discretion if someone else who applied after me and gets his/her application approved.

As an applicant to a state department (public service funded by taxpayers), I deserve to get my application processed within a reasonable time. Keeping uncertainty over an excessive period of time is a violation of my basic right as a taxpayer. If it was not then there must not be court rulings to force department make a decision. There could be people who are not allowed to work or travel before a decision is made.

I agree with the court ruling, exercise the absolute discretion in making a decision but do make a decision within a reasonable time. There are examples where the court gave a deadline.

If the department is not doing anything illegal then there shouldn't be any court rulings against the department at all, but that is not the reality. There are many rulings against the department asked to make a decision within a timeframe or reversed a decision.

Protests can be counterproductive sometimes but not always, but at least it will bring attention to everybody that there is something need to be corrected. Nowadays there is a big reform agenda within the Ministry of Justice & Equality (splitting them into two, perhaps this will help to improve). A classic example of using protests, naming and shaming to get a decision from the state is the case of xxxxxxx (just google her tweets). She used every possible media to shame the department and her mysterious silence before the September Ceremony shows that she got what she wanted to...

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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by CR001 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:34 pm

Paddy_Leprechaun wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:27 pm
Protests can be counterproductive sometimes but not always, but at least it will bring attention to everybody that there is something need to be corrected. Nowadays there is a big reform agenda within the Ministry of Justice & Equality (splitting them into two, perhaps this will help to improve). A classic example of using protests, naming and shaming to get a decision from the state is the case of xxxxxxx (just google her tweets). She used every possible media to shame the department and her mysterious silence before the September Ceremony shows that she got what she wanted to...
Please do NOT post names of people, they have a right to privacy from strangers on the forum regardless of whether their name has appeared in the press. I am sure you have not been given permission by the person to post their name on a very public internet forum.
Char (CR001 not Casa)
In life you cannot press the Backspace button!!
Please DO NOT send me a PM for immigration advice. I reserve the right to ignore the PM and not respond.

Paddy_Leprechaun
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by Paddy_Leprechaun » Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:42 pm

CR001 wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:34 pm
Paddy_Leprechaun wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:27 pm
Protests can be counterproductive sometimes but not always, but at least it will bring attention to everybody that there is something need to be corrected. Nowadays there is a big reform agenda within the Ministry of Justice & Equality (splitting them into two, perhaps this will help to improve). A classic example of using protests, naming and shaming to get a decision from the state is a recent case of an applicant who used every possible media to shame the department and her mysterious silence before the September Ceremony shows that she got what she wanted to...
Please do NOT post names of people, they have a right to privacy from strangers on the forum regardless of whether their name has appeared in the press. I am sure you have not been given permission by the person to post their name on a very public internet forum.
Thanks for pointing it out and moderating it. You are absolutely right, that's why every forum needs a moderator. :wink:

Statusquo73
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by Statusquo73 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:07 am

I certenly understand that Citizenship is privilege not a right. However, the point that you missing is that we are not anxious about getting approval..
The case is that we deserve a respond within 1 year yet the usual time frame is 6 months.

Most of the people a definete answer within 6 months or max 1 year. But we have to suffer waiting for 2-3 years. Why?

Again, we dDO NOT begging for approval, we just do not understand why we have to wait all these years.
If they think that it is a decline, just decline it.

Missstamper
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by Missstamper » Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:26 pm

Statusquo73 wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:07 am
I certenly understand that Citizenship is privilege not a right. However, the point that you missing is that we are not anxious about getting approval..
The case is that we deserve a respond within 1 year yet the usual time frame is 6 months.

Most of the people a definete answer within 6 months or max 1 year. But we have to suffer waiting for 2-3 years. Why?

Again, we dDO NOT begging for approval, we just do not understand why we have to wait all these years.
If they think that it is a decline, just decline it.
Very well put - the citizenship is a right statement is bulls**t. It’s more to do with getting a decision in a reasonable amount of time (positive or negative decision - it doesn’t matter as long as people know). It should not take years. Applications are clearly not processed for months on end, and are sitting in a pile.

Stress
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by Stress » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:13 pm

Thank you for your email. It is recognised that all applicants for
citizenship would wish to have a decision on their application without
delay. Your application for naturalisation continues to be processed . If
further documentation and/or clarification of any matter related to your
application is required from you, we will write to you requesting it.

Please Note each application is assessed on an individual basis and the
amount of time gathering all the the necessary information varies from
application to application. While it is not possible to give an exact
timeframe, this office will be in touch as soon as a decision has been
reached.


Regards

Citizenship Helpdesk
Team 1



After 2 and half year i got this reply 😢

Syjem
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by Syjem » Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:45 pm

Does anyone know whether the team number means anything. For long time, my application was processed by Team 1. I can see most of the delayed applications are with team1. Is there any reason for this. Does this indicate that team 1 is responsible for certain type of applications and for this most of the dealy is coming from them. My last two emails I received answers from Team 2 and then Team 7

Grace620
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by Grace620 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:28 pm

Hi ,

In my past experienced I asked lady over the fone what is about team 1/2/3/4/5 ?

Answerd clarified by lady , there is numbers of peoples working in team which means i( lady team 4) working on file numbers of applicants )

Simply team 1 have many files also different officers dealing . Names

So own experienced forget about teams ( but do make quiery on/off to remind them your there

Regards Grace

Taki
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by Taki » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:44 pm

Hi Syjem, l know your ur application was on advance stage, what happen with u, have u not yet receive ur decision, if not what is the latest update regardibg ur application.

rockyguy
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by rockyguy » Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:07 pm

Taki wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:44 pm
Hi Syjem, l know your ur application was on advance stage, what happen with u, have u not yet receive ur decision, if not what is the latest update regardibg ur application.
Hi guys,

any update for 2016 applicants? I am still waiting after advanced stage letter . God knows what going to happen with our file. I have spoken to many lawyers they have said "wait is the only key" we can't take any action against them unless they don't give any unlawful objection. Don't know when is the next ceremony, I am not hoping anything from department til xmas and new years now.
:(

rockyguy
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Re: delay in citizenship application - applied in 2016

Post by rockyguy » Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:47 pm

Guys any update from department on 2016 applications?? This thread is completely silence for few weeks. I am still waiting :(

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