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INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

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Alixlboy
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Ireland

INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by Alixlboy » Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:29 pm

Guys
Sorry if I missed some other countries, but naturalisation applications from Pakistanis and Africans seem to be getting particularly delayed by INIS for no reason, while all of us are paying taxes to the irish government, just like any other applicants and don't have any criminal record or even penalty points etc. So this is total discrimination and we must protest and raise our voice against this injustice and inequality from the so called Department of Justice and equality.
I am now thinking of going legal against them, based on the fact that the standard time advised by INIS for all applicants including all nationalities is 6 months. They must advise people from these nationalities clearly that the period is different and longer for them for whatever stupid reasons, otherwise this would be totally unfair towards them to treat them in such a disrespectful and unfair way.
I have noticed that a good few people who applied around the same time as myself or even after me, have now got approvals and I got yet another silly copy and paste reply today from INIS saying your application continues to be processed blah blah blah. I believe we all know about these repetitive responses from them at this stage.
One of my Pakistani friends applied one year before I did and still hasn't heard anything from INIS. This is ridiculous. I applied in 2018 myself, got the second stage letter along with the receipt and passports, but still no approval yet.

I believe this has been discussed on some other topics but it would be great if our African and Pakistani members can share their experience and/or timelines on this topic. This is getting out of hand now and we must discuss this topic due to urgency of the matter.
Feel free to comment and share your thoughts even if you belong to any other nationalities. It's now time to act immediately.
Regards

Stress
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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by Stress » Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:44 pm

i was on wait list for 3 years. same with my sister as well.

Omad24
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Afghanistan

Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by Omad24 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:57 pm

Even though they say 6 months. Honestly it’s more like 2 years.

I will say I feel British, Americans and some eu countries seem to get priority.

Alixlboy
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Ireland

Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by Alixlboy » Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:20 pm

Stress wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:44 pm
i was on wait list for 3 years. same with my sister as well.
That s unbelievable. Have you finally got the approvals?

Alixlboy
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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by Alixlboy » Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:22 pm

Omad24 wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:57 pm
Even though they say 6 months. Honestly it’s more like 2 years.

I will say I feel British, Americans and some eu countries seem to get priority.
Yes.
One of my friends has an irish wife, irish kids and he applied in 2017 and is still waiting for a decision on his application.
Some other members have similar timelines I believe.

Stress
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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by Stress » Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:23 pm

yeah i have got it. Thanks to God

gsvzla
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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by gsvzla » Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:35 pm

It might be the case that applications from some countries are handled differently depending on the specific situation of each country, such as war, etc.

I think definitely other EU countries have their application processed faster.

You have to consider the INIS has to do a background check on you and it's easier to background check someone from the EU, specially if all their documents, etc, are in English.

When you add the language barrier and different processes for each country and how they background check and the responses from the countries of origin, this can delay some applications more than others.

niksire
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Ireland

Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by niksire » Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:38 pm

I am not sure but it also depend on the home country to come back with all documents immigration department is requesting from them, how fast they are in such process is probably depend on our home country as well.

Also I have seen many others from the country you have mentioned got approval within year too. I am sure if you request information on your records you might able to get more understanding on the process and how far you reached in their checklist.

I have seen few people requested this FOI information and able to find the issue with their application. I have waited myself for 2 years now and seen my friends receiving in 6month or year and I wonder myself as well all the time.

But I am concern too about how the things works in Naturalisation Dept, there should be major upgradtion needed in order to make the application process smooth and transperent, where we can get regular updates on application status.

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markem
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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by markem » Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:39 pm

It's a small amount of data, but have a look at the chart below which shows average and minimum approval times (in days) for different nationalities. Not everyone posts with a flag or says what their original country is, so I don't have complete data.

Pakistan stands out as having a longer average approval timeline (approx 600 days) and longer minimum (over 200 days). New Zealand also has a longer minimum. The only African countries I can show are Egypt and South Africa, which is pretty low, actually.

If I understand your post correctly, you are implying that there is some level of intentional discrimination against certain countries. I don't have any reason to agree or disagree with you, but I would suggest you consider that it might take more time for INIS to access information about people from those countries - either because of language, bureaucracy, availability of information, or whether they are part of information sharing arrangements. (After writing this I see @gsvzla has made roughly the same point).

What is interesting is that it it possible to get an approval within 73 days of applying for someone coming from a Non-EU country.

Image
Timeline threads here:
2020 /
2019 / 2018 / 2017 / 2016

ahmad380
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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by ahmad380 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:51 pm

I am from Pakistan. I applied in May'2018 and still waiting. They always give same reply 'continue to be processed..etc'. I got 2nd stage letter 6 months ago but not sure now what stage it is in now. I have no convictions and paying taxes for the last 7 years now. Not sure what to do? I am in for any protest if we plan for it?

Captainf
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Afghanistan

Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by Captainf » Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:53 pm

It's not only Pakistanis or Africans, it's everybody else as well. During the last 3 years only 1 or 2 Afghans has been granted citizenship. I have been waiting since 3 yrs myself and I know some from Afg who has been waiting over 3 n half yrs.

Emu1990
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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by Emu1990 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:46 pm

gsvzla wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:35 pm
It might be the case that applications from some countries are handled differently depending on the specific situation of each country, such as war, etc.

I think definitely other EU countries have their application processed faster.

You have to consider the INIS has to do a background check on you and it's easier to background check someone from the EU, specially if all their documents, etc, are in English.




When you add the language barrier and different processes for each country and how they background check and the responses from the countries of origin, this can delay some applications more than others.


And what background check they have to do when someone living in ireland for 12 -13 years .... just a question..

nojoyfrominis
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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by nojoyfrominis » Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:33 pm

They will blame it on fatf. Iran, Sudan and Syria are blacklisted countries. Pakistan and Cuba are in very high risk countries. Even for bank accounts, all their accounts are monitored and reviewed annually and so many accounts are closed by banks due to transactions to these countries or lots of cash transactions.
I agree it’s discriminatory but FATF recommendations will stand in court of law unfortunately.

niccim
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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by niccim » Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:23 pm

Omad24 wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:57 pm
Even though they say 6 months. Honestly it’s more like 2 years.

I will say I feel British, Americans and some eu countries seem to get priority.
I am from the US with an Irish spouse. I have waited for almost a year now and haven't gotten the second letter. I contacted all my TDs and finally, they were able to get my passport back to me and a receipt for my payment after 6 months. I think I only got an answer because I contacted TDs and INIS got four requests for info on my application.

I would love to know what system they use. Someone here said maybe they take the smallest envelopes and process those first. It does make sense because it means they can reduce applications quickly. Or what they think it quick :lol: People who aren't European probably have bigger envelopes (though from sitting in INIS office for 8-hour days to renew visas, I would say people there are real problems with discrimination).

Most ceremonies are with Polish and British people (I find about half of the ceremonies around with EU citizens but probably because it's most common).

Alixlboy
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Ireland

Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by Alixlboy » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:10 pm

It s definitely not the information that they need from any such countries, as a real friend of mine got his approval in just 5 months, but that was around 2 or 3 years ago. At that time, majority of the people were getting approvals within the 6 months period. It stayed like this for a couple of years and then suddenly after Brexit controversy started, they started prioritizing some countries and delaying some others.

One of the gentlemen has raised a very genuine question above. What information do they need if someone is living here for 12 or 13 years? Even 5 years is enough to prove someone s genuineness of character etc., which is the requirement by INIS themselves.
They should really need no information from such countries, while someone has lived in this country peacefully for a certain amount of time, unless in very rare circumstances, such a person having committed some sort of serious crime in ireland etc. Only then they have the excuse to delay an app.
I dont believe that a person was a culprit back home, suddenly became a noble person for 5 years and the would become a serial killer again as soon as he becomes irish.That is just hilarious.

Alixlboy
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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by Alixlboy » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:19 pm

Stress wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:23 pm
yeah i have got it. Thanks to God
Glad for you.

Alixlboy
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Ireland

Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by Alixlboy » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:28 pm

What sort of background checks would take 2 to 3 years?l?
I think it s just a mere exaggeration that they need 2 or 3 years to check someone s background, while they want 6 months for this as per their official websites, regardless of someone s nationality.
Things got far better during the later period of the previous immigration minister, and look, we are back to the same old situation again. All thanks to the current inefficient minister perhaps I must say.

Alixlboy
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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by Alixlboy » Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:08 am

niksire wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:38 pm
I am not sure but it also depend on the home country to come back with all documents immigration department is requesting from them, how fast they are in such process is probably depend on our home country as well.

Also I have seen many others from the country you have mentioned got approval within year too. I am sure if you request information on your records you might able to get more understanding on the process and how far you reached in their checklist.

I have seen few people requested this FOI information and able to find the issue with their application. I have waited myself for 2 years now and seen my friends receiving in 6month or year and I wonder myself as well all the time.

But I am concern too about how the things works in Naturalisation Dept, there should be major upgradtion needed in order to make the application process smooth and transperent, where we can get regular updates on application status.
I ll also try the FOI option in order to make sure that I have exhausted every single Avenue and INIS dont have any other excuse left.
How long does it take for you to get a copy of FOI?
If the above doesnt work, I am definitely going to the high court as this will help many others.

aneelrahim
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Pakistan

Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by aneelrahim » Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:41 am

Alixlboy wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:08 am


I ll also try the FOI option in order to make sure that I have exhausted every single Avenue and INIS dont have any other excuse left.
How long does it take for you to get a copy of FOI?
If the above doesnt work, I am definitely going to the high court as this will help many others.
Information about the FOI
ireland/citizenship-application-process ... l#p1736174

Alixlboy
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Ireland

Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by Alixlboy » Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:43 am

aneelrahim wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:41 am
Alixlboy wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:08 am


I ll also try the FOI option in order to make sure that I have exhausted every single Avenue and INIS dont have any other excuse left.
How long does it take for you to get a copy of FOI?
If the above doesnt work, I am definitely going to the high court as this will help many others.
Information about the FOI
ireland/citizenship-application-process ... l#p1736174
Thanks Aneel. Much appreciated.

littlerr
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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by littlerr » Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:18 pm

Legally speaking, to sue someone for facial discrimination, you need solid proof that another person is given preferential treatment because of their nationality/race/skin colour. It could be quite difficult especially because You need to find persons from other countries who have very similar lifestyle as yours.

As I mentioned a few times, I am a Chinese National working in Ireland for 5 years. I applied for naturalisation as soon as the 5 year is passed.
I have a friend and colleague who is British. He has worked here for 20 years.
We have Same jobs. Similar salary. Neither of us have any offences in Ireland.
We applied in July 2018. I got naturalised this April, while his application was still in first stage.
Any reason for the slowness for this British person? Absolutely no idea, but you won’t be able to say that British applicants are getting preferential treatments at least.

Bippin
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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by Bippin » Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:25 pm

Have you got proof for this? I am not from Africa nor Pakistan but i have friends from those countries and got approval in a reasonable time , talk like less than a year especially Pakistani woman friend of mine she got approval less than eight months as she has a strong solid proof here, never move an address ,stay at same jobs since she moved here. Myself applied on Late April or early May this year all i having now from INIS is a second stage letter asked for more paperwork nothing else.

usmanch313
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Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by usmanch313 » Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:21 am

Very rare cases they give approval in a year or less than.
I know very personally people from Pakistan who applied in January 2017 Base on marriage with Irish citizens and still wating .
Second person applied in April 2017 no response yet .
Thirld friend wife applied in March 18 nothing yet.
4th person applied in July 18 nothing yet.

5th person friend wife base on Refugees applied in June 17 nothing yet.
They are all Pakistani.
These all cases is proof because I know these people very personally, I'm totally agreed with this oppinion that DOJ and INIS are treating unfairly with these nationalities.

Statusquo73
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Lebanon

Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by Statusquo73 » Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:54 am

Hi guys,

What I suggest is lets contact some of the journalist, reporters who covered Citizenship issue recently..
If at least 5-6 people email those people They will put on their newspaper.
Imagine a topic like " Citizenship applicants cannot leave Ireland for a year" made a huge noise. Now if we push and tell them our story ( even anonymously) It will be a great topic to cover for them.\
I bbelive we have 2 option, MEDIA or Judical Review.

Meanhile I write myself to journalists and ask them to put this topic on their newspaper.
However we we all together do it It will make a difference. I need your help on this guys....

Lets acts together.

Alixlboy
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Ireland

Re: INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

Post by Alixlboy » Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:03 am

usmanch313 wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:21 am
Very rare cases they give approval in a year or less than.
I know very personally people from Pakistan who applied in January 2017 Base on marriage with Irish citizens and still wating .
Second person applied in April 2017 no response yet .
Thirld friend wife applied in March 18 nothing yet.
4th person applied in July 18 nothing yet.

5th person friend wife base on Refugees applied in June 17 nothing yet.
They are all Pakistani.
These all cases is proof because I know these people very personally, I'm totally agreed with this oppinion that DOJ and INIS are treating unfairly with these nationalities.
Exactly. I personally know such people myself. Statistics about how many people from these nationalities attended previous ceremonies are enough for a proof.

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