Another month, another refusal... would my parents ever get to come to uk?

Hello All,
So my parent 6 months visit visa is refused again from Pakistan and I am really at loss on how should I respond. I am not legal or immigration expert but hoping someone can share their experience to help me out. Desperate for your help.
Bit of background,

• Parents visited UK in 2013/14 and returned on time, Visited Spain and Holland in 2013 and returned on time
  Visited Dubai to see family in 2016/17/18 and returned on time.
  UK visit visa refused in 2015 as ECO wasn't satisfied with circumstances presented.
  UK visit visa refused again in 2019

Below are the reasons for the refusal in 2019
Enquiries made by this office have failed to verify that your bank statements are
genuine I am therefore not able to take these documents into consideration in
support of your application and I am not satisfied that these funds are a reflection of
your usual financial situation or that these funds are genuinely available for your
exclusive use.
 I need to take into account all the information available to me to make an assessment
of your application. Part of that evidence is the information you provided in your
previous application for a visit visa on 7/4/2015. That application was refused
because the Entry Clearance Officer was not satisfied that your intentions were as
stated. Full reasons for the decision were provided in the Notice of Refusal and I
note that in this subsequent application you have not fully addressed the points
raised.
 From reviewing the documents submitted with your application I have been unable to
fully assess your personal and financial circumstances, your claimed income, the
source and origin of your funds or that you have addressed the grounds for your
previous refusal. This causes me to doubt that your circumstances are as stated.

Question is
1. Who has the onus to get the documents verified. We contacted bank and were told no inquiries were made? What can I do? those bank statements are 100% genuine and funds are still available
2. All the claimed income, pension. rental income x2 (for more than a year) is documented (affidavit + bank deposits), National saving certificate, I mean, all can be verified
3. I wrote 6 pages cover letter with 2019 visa application explaining all the points raised in visa refusal of 2015 and provided documentary evidence to prove our claims. ECO has generalized in refusal that we had not addressed refusal points from 2015. However there were no specific or pin pointed objection to any explanation and documented provided. This gives me an impression that it was rushed job and refusal was already decided before considering any supplementary documents (I provided a lot of verified documents)
This refusal was received after they held the visa application for more than 6 weeks (2019 application).

I really dont know what can I do to prove to ECO genuine nature of the documents or how to proceed?
Would PAP be recommended?

Hoping experts/members of the group can advise?
Regards

Hi
How much time your parents spent in the UK when they visited u back in 2013/14? How much time u actually stated in the visa application 2013/14?

Hi
6 weeks in 2013 as applied in application
3 months in 2014, but during application we said 6 weeks. But this was due to the fact that at the time of application in 2014 I was a tenant, however after the visa grant, I bought a house and parents came for longer to help me set the house. I provided documentary evidence and full explanation of this within cover letter. Extra time was spent on choosing furniture, carpet etc

That is the reason your parents not getting a visit visa again. if u fail to keep your words once. They won't trust u again. I know it sounds a bit harsh but that's how UKVI treating people nowadays.
Whatever u do or documents u submit, u will face a refusal.

What would be the way around it now?
There was no mention in the application form for this information or I’d happily supply all information and documentation

My father went to the bank to check why the bank statement couldn’t be verified and it turned out that out of 3,2 were verified but not the third one. The unverified bank statement was his business bank statement which was closed 2 years ago (as he’s retired now) and apparently banks in Pakistan immediately delete data after account closure and no record is kept. (We had to provide business bank statement to clear a point from previous rejection where they asked for business doc 3 years ago).
Has this happened to anyone else? What can I do apart from explaining in the next application?

May be a message to everyone not to submit a closed account statement which can’t be verified and result in unnecessary refusal.

Any comment/help/experience share will be appreciated

Regards

You submitted unnecessary documentation that was only relevant to 3 years ago.

You only address refusal points if you are reapplying immediately after a refusal, so not sure why you felt the need to address refusal points from 3 years ago.

May be due to our naivety... I was being over cautious in case if we hadn’t supplied the documents, I suppose they could come back still refusing that previous points were not addressed

Appreciate it might not be easier to solve the situation but any suggestion on a particular course of action?

My father has managed to find bank closure application from 3 years ago and bank has verified that the application is genuine and the account was closed on customer request

I am confused whether to apply for PAP or make a new application explaining the point that closed account can’t be verified and supplying additional document.

Would a refusal for PAP counted as double refusal and can eco raise further objections?

Really confused so looking for some guidance.
your share of experience or advise can help me a lot

Regards

CR001 wrote: ↑

Wed May 29, 2019 2:36 pm

You submitted unnecessary documentation that was only relevant to 3 years ago.

You only address refusal points if you are reapplying immediately after a refusal, so not sure why you felt the need to address refusal points from 3 years ago.

My point stands. You are over complicating the application With irrelevant documents.

I take your point - and completely understand

But not sure how to address points in latest refusal. I copied the text in my original post

Am I correct to understand that you suggest we should re apply without business documents?

Would PAP be recommended?

Hi All/CR001

Regarding question for reapply, if i reapply, I think I will have to explain the point around closed bank account. Any may be shouldn’t submit unnecessary documents. Did I understand this correctly?

Also just for peace of mind, if I ever go down the route of PAP can HO include new objections?
In your opinion PAP could be a strong contender in my case.

Some family issues going on so need to get parents here for resolving.

Any help will be much appreciated

Based on the information posted from the refusal some points do come to mind

• you have well and truly over complicated the application by submission of irrelevant documents which have bounced back on you

• you are suggesting even further complicating the matter by applying again and trying to unpick the mess of the last refusal. It will make matters worse not better trying to do that

• would a PAP be successful, not entirely sure because the closed back account is a real issue. It should never have been submitted in the first place and it is not unreasonable that the ECO relied on it. So how do you essentially get that out of play... and then get the visa reconsideration?

• there are short comings in the refusal... it is not reasonable for a refusal some years ago to be considered as part of this application. Suggesting that the refusal reasons needed to be addressed this time round has no basis in law. On that point alone it might be worth a PAP.

Be minded that if the PAP gets the case to reconsideration that it takes months for the reconsideration to be processed. So a win at PAP could be quite hollow and certainly not a quick route to follow.

If you do go down the route of re-application then keep it simple, do not try to unpick everything and explain it all. It rarely gets the desired outcome. Stick to the basics, show the income, current bank statements and provide a positive picture of why their links with their home country are strong. Do not think for one second that it will be easy but sometimes less is truly more.

I highly appreciate your time and effort. Defo gives me a lead on making up my mind

Regards

Another month, another refusal... would my parents ever get to come to uk?

It’s been a heartbreaking news for 70 year old parents that yet another time visa has been refused

All they wanted to do was to come and spend time with their grandchildren

Every time we submit additional docs, a new set of refusal reason come to surface. Bank statements, rental agreement, property papers, pension shown but can’t satisfy ECO. They appear to have a personal grudge

Refusal reasons below, (my mother refusal says that she is traveling with ‘your wife’, gone on to show how much attention they are paying

Should I give up on trying and accept the defeat?

 I am aware that you were previously refused entry clearance on 20/05/2019 under visa application number Abu Dhabi / . I have considered your previous application in addition to the documents and information you have submitted in this, your current, application and in assessing your application in its entirety, I am not satisfied that you have met the Immigration Rules on this occasion.
 I note that you state that your main intention in travelling to the UK is to visit your son and his family in the UK. You state that your son has recently changed jobs and therefore is unable to take any leave, however the employment letters provided demonstrate that he started his employment in October 2018, which contradicts your claim of changing jobs recently.
 I have taken into account that you state that your son will fully finance your visit to the UK however, it is your own personal and financial circumstances I am concerned with at this time. I have taken into account your claimed income and circumstances in your home country however the documents do not demonstrate that your circumstances are as claimed. Furthermore you state that you are travelling to the UK with your wife and it is unclear as to any ties you have remaining in your home country.
 I have considered the documents and information submitted in your application; and on the balance of probabilities I am not satisfied that you have accurately presented your circumstances or intentions in wishing to enter the United Kingdom. This undermines the credibility of your application to the extent that I am not satisfied that you are genuinely seeking entry as a visitor or intend to leave the UK at the end of your visit. Paragraph V 4.2 (a) (c) of the Immigration Rules.

KA941 wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:38 pm

You state that your son has recently changed jobs and therefore is unable to take any leave, however the employment letters provided demonstrate that he started his employment in October 2018, which contradicts your claim of changing jobs recently.

Why you havent attached your contract of recent employment if you have really changed the job?

I changed jobs in Nov (not sure why Oct was mentioned). Main point was that I was on probation and can’t take any time off.

KA941 wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:36 pm

I changed jobs in Nov (not sure why Oct was mentioned). Main point was that I was on probation and can’t take any time off.

Even you have changed your job in NOV but still it can't be said as recent change. A person on probation is still entitled to holidays.

seagul wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:17 pm

KA941 wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:36 pm

I changed jobs in Nov (not sure why Oct was mentioned). Main point was that I was on probation and can’t take any time off.

Even you have changed your job in NOV but still it can't be said as recent change. A person on probation is still entitled to holidays.

In the hindsight, I agree, it wasn’t the best choice of words to explain the situation. I’m on probation and manager would not allow more than 1 week holiday (part of contract) which isn’t enough to go to another country with a family.
But was this such a crucial point that ECO used it as a point for refusal? What are they suggesting that because it’s not a new job, I should go instead and not apply for parents visa? Why would they raise this point otherwise...?

Appreciate you taking time to discuss, but could you suggest best course of action from here. It won’t be easy, I know, but what are the best options?

Appeal the decision

seagul wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:27 pm

Appeal the decision

There are no appeal rights for visitor visas.