Can we challenge to court regulation 21.5

jay.ho · Post by **jay.ho** » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:53 pm

Hi all ...

Regulation 21.5 which is for non eea spicily divorced who can't provide the eea ex id can we challenge to Court this law ...
Because this is really hard for those who divorced and can't provide the ex id .

If you need any information please share

Thanks

Jay

CR001 · Post by **CR001** » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:58 pm

Would probably make more sense to continue posting about this in the topic that moderator Obie already started on this issue of reg 21.5.

eea-route-applications/difficulty-for-n ... 37237.html

007RAHEEL · Post by **007RAHEEL** » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:04 pm

I’m ready to contribute to challenge this unlawful regulation.

Jbkhan32 · Post by **Jbkhan32** » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:05 pm

Yes thats a good idea.
Any body knows how can we challenge regulation 21(5) as it is totally non sense.
It is a good idea to challenge this regulation in Supreme Court
It will be very helpful for all if someone give us a directions
I am fully ready to participate in every way if we all together go against this unlawful regulation

Wise · Post by **Wise** » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:31 pm

Good move. I have said this before that it is until all the non EU migrant in this country rise up to their feet that is when things can begin to change or look into because during the time of HSMP they created forum over the similar issue and they won in court.

Firstly, What I was told when I contacted CROWDFUNDING on different issue was, for them to help to raise money on any legal issue against any government dpt,you need to first get Lawyer/Barrister that will be willing to take up the case and how much the case will cost then they will now set up the provision to raise the money from the public interested to support the case.

To remind you all that was how Brexit Article 50 was challenged through the same body. So if you know that this regulation will affect you then people can try to make the move and challenge it. I AM UP FOR IT!

jay.ho · Post by **jay.ho** » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:01 pm

Thanks wise and really appreciate that .....

There are 4 of us now who are ready to take this netter to the court .

This will help everyone who are divorced and can't provide the ex id I this this law is unlawful.
We must take action against this .

Jay

007RAHEEL · Post by **007RAHEEL** » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:55 pm

The UK Supreme Court

The UK Supreme Court deals with civil and criminal appeals from the Court of Appeal, or in some cases the High Court where the case involves a point of law or is of general public importance.

The Court of Justice of the European Union

If your problem is one which is covered by European law, your case may be referred to the Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU), based in Luxembourg. This may happen if European legislation has not been implemented properly by a national government, if there is confusion over its interpretation, or if it has been ignored.

You must first pursue your case through the national legal system, but the national court can (and in some cases must) refer an issue to the CJEU for guidance (a ruling). The case is then sent back to the national court to make a decision based on the ruling of the CJEU.

Obie · Post by **Obie** » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:26 pm

There is the issue of standing, which needs to be addressed. The court will decline to accommodate a case if a person does not have sufficient interest in the matter.

It will help if one individual has actually had a decision.

The other issue is the question of which region in the UK the different individual resides.

There are different system applicable to England and Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland, which JR are at the Outer court of Session.

If the challenge is against the refusal to consider regulation 42, then the appeal will be at the Upper Tribunal, and if it is a direct challenge to the EEA Regulation, it will be at the High Court, as the Upper Tribunal even though it has judicial review powers, does not have power to declare incompatibility.

007RAHEEL · Post by **007RAHEEL** » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:30 pm

Obie wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:26 pm
There is the issue of standing, which needs to be addressed. The court will decline to accommodate a case if a person does not have sufficient interest in the matter.

It will help if one individual has actually had a decision.

The other issue is the question of which region in the UK the different individual resides.

There are different system applicable to England and Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland, which JR are at the Outer court of Session.

If the challenge is against the refusal to consider regulation 42, then the appeal will be at the Upper Tribunal, and if it is a direct challenge to the EEA Regulation, it will be at the High Court, as the Upper Tribunal even though it has judicial review powers, does not have power to declare incompatibility.

We want to direct challenge to the Eea Regulation and it will be High Court. As I’m aware you’re already dealing this matter in Jr so it’s better to go Highcourt

Obie · Post by **Obie** » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:44 pm

Unfortunately i have been unable to issue proceedings in the 2 matters. I will take this opportunity to provide an update.

1.First matter was a Surinder Singh case, where the British Citizen has overseas employer, so he could not provide his passport. Home Office has conceded the Passport issue and asked for evidence unrelated to the passport, and we are awaiting a reply in the next week. I believe that Surinder Singh case will be fine, as it is dealt with at a director level.

2. In the other one, i have been notified of a reply from Home Office this evening , Home Office withdrew the passport/ID decision, refuse on a different grounds other than the passport and gave a right of appeal. The other grounds is clearly baseless anyway, but they want to be vindictive and show me they have more than one way to skin a cat. Idiots.

So unfortunately i was denied the pleasure of challenging them on those 2 cases. So I will just have to wait.

I do not understand how they will legislate in a manner with is inconsistent with settled law.

We have 2 authorities, where the Tribunal and the High Court ruled that the requirement of passport or ID is not founded in Article 10 of directive 2004/38EC, now they are legislating contrary to that. So so troubling.

No wonder the EU cannot trust the UK to protect the rights of its citizens after Brexit.

007RAHEEL · Post by **007RAHEEL** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:05 am

Obie wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:44 pm
Unfortunately i have been unable to issue proceedings in the 2 matters. I will take this opportunity to provide an update.

1.First matter was a Surinder Singh case, where the British Citizen has overseas employer, so he could not provide his passport. Home Office has conceded the Passport issue and asked for evidence unrelated to the passport, and we are awaiting a reply in the next week. I believe that Surinder Singh case will be fine, as it is dealt with at a director level.

2. In the other one, i have been notified of a reply from Home Office this evening , Home Office withdrew the passport/ID decision, refuse on a different grounds other than the passport and gave a right of appeal. The other grounds is clearly baseless anyway, but they want to be vindictive and show me they have more than one way to skin a cat. Idiots.

So unfortunately i was denied the pleasure of challenging them on those 2 cases. So I will just have to wait.

I do not understand how they will legislate in a manner with is inconsistent with settled law.

We have 2 authorities, where the Tribunal and the High Court ruled that the requirement of passport or ID is not founded in Article 10 of directive 2004/38EC, now they are legislating contrary to that. So so troubling.

No wonder the EU cannot trust the UK to protect the rights of its citizens after Brexit.

In my case shall I go for Jr instead of waiting for reconsideration outcome ? they are refusing on different grounds after reconsideration so you can’t challenge that’s shame. Might happen same with me after how long you hear from them for second refusal in different grounds ?

Obie · Post by **Obie** » Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:19 pm

In this case, i believe it may be best to wait for the outcome of the Reconsideration.

The Court may refuse to grant you relief, or refuse to award cost, if you pursue JR in circumstances where the Home Office had agreed to reconsider the case.

If it is any consolation, the Home Office have been cooperative in JR PAP sent in regards to the 21.5 issue, even in the case they refused, they grant a right of appeal, which mean they did not consider the validity point in the regulation.

It seems to me they are taking chances, if you have a strong resolve, they will capitulate, if not they will see if they can use it to undermine an individual's rights.

dhruv_ · Post by **dhruv_** » Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:38 pm

Hello all

I am ready to contribute in whatever way required in order to bring this case some attention.
Also please keep the forum updated with your outcomes.

jay.ho · Post by **jay.ho** » Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:30 pm

dhruv_ wrote: ↑
Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:38 pm
Hello all

I am ready to contribute in whatever way required in order to bring this case some attention.
Also please keep the forum updated with your outcomes.

I applied for PR as well with photocopy I will update you ...

dhruv_ · Post by **dhruv_** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:35 am

Thank you
If my ex spouse agrees to provide her original ID a bit later can I send it to HO to adjoin my application? Or we cannot provide any additional documents once the application has been sent away?

Also did you notary your photocopy?

Obie · Post by **Obie** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:47 pm

Just to update this thread, I have been notified, that the Home Office has issued residence in one of the outstanding case, which was refused for failure to provide ID.

So there is some hope, and applicants should not be discouraged.

Received another successful application this week, where the ID card or passport of the EEA national was not provided but residence was issued. It is 3 now. and 2 from the same country with the ID refusal.

I would have thought one may be an oversight, but 3, clearly cannot be, there may be other explanation.

Jbkhan32 · Post by **Jbkhan32** » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:14 am

I believe Home Office will not pick and choose nationalities for regulation 21(5)

Sarfraz125 · Post by **Sarfraz125** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:35 pm

Obie wrote: ↑
Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:19 pm
In this case, i believe it may be best to wait for the outcome of the Reconsideration.

The Court may refuse to grant you relief, or refuse to award cost, if you pursue JR in circumstances where the Home Office had agreed to reconsider the case.

If it is any consolation, the Home Office have been cooperative in JR PAP sent in regards to the 21.5 issue, even in the case they refused, they grant a right of appeal, which mean they did not consider the validity point in the regulation.

It seems to me they are taking chances, if you have a strong resolve, they will capitulate, if not they will see if they can use it to undermine an individual's rights.

I applied for EEA Pr in february 2018 after 5 years of marriage and exercising of treaty rights by eea national. I could not provide id or passport because of my matrimonial issues. HO has refused my application. Now my wife has left the uk and divorce proceedings are undrway. What should i do in these circumstances?? Lodge a fresh application with explaination of my circumstances or go for JR???

Obie · Post by **Obie** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:08 pm

If you have an appeal right, then it will be sensible to exercise it. JR will not be possible when you have a right of appeal.

Sarfraz125 · Post by **Sarfraz125** » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:32 am

Obie wrote: ↑
Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:08 pm
If you have an appeal right, then it will be sensible to exercise it. JR will not be possible when you have a right of appeal.

I do not have right of appeal

vinny · Post by **vinny** » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:50 am

Was it because of failing 36(2)?

Obie · Post by **Obie** » Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:43 am

vinny wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:50 am
Was it because of failing 36(2)?

I do not think that is correct. In the case of this OP, it is 36(4)(b) (iii) that applies and not 36(2). He does have a right of appeal as he appears to have provided all what that regulation requires, and he should file in a notice of appeal.

Sarfraz125 · Post by **Sarfraz125** » Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:50 pm

Obie wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:43 am

vinny wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:50 am
Was it because of failing 36(2)?
I do not think that is correct. In the case of this OP, it is 36(4)(b) (iii) that applies and not 36(2). He does have a right of appeal as he appears to have provided all what that regulation requires, and he should file in a notice of appeal.

I applied for EEA Pr in february 2018 after 5 years of marriage and exercising of treaty rights by eea national. I could not provide id or passport because of my matrimonial issues. HO has refused my application. Now my wife has left the uk and divorce proceedings are undrway. What should i do in these circumstances?? Lodge a fresh application with explaination of my circumstances or go for JR???

They did not give me right of appeal.
What should I do in this situation???

Obie · Post by **Obie** » Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:31 pm

About 40% of cases I know of are people whom Home Office refuse to confirm a right of appeal. The people nevertheless appealed and were successful.

I 100% believe you have and appeal right and this must be pursued.

Are you receiving legal representation from a lawyer?

Sarfraz125 · Post by **Sarfraz125** » Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:55 am

Obie wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:31 pm
About 40% of cases I know of are people whom Home Office refuse to confirm a right of appeal. The people nevertheless appealed and were successful.

I 100% believe you have and appeal right and this must be pursued.

Are you receiving legal representation from a lawyer?

I am not receiving any legal representation. Could you represent me??

How can I appeal without a right of appeal?? What is its procedure??

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