Divorce finalised After 2nd Marriage plz help, CASA, batleykhan, CR001

[Faizansunny]

I have been reading upon this forum with similar situations others have had, also i have seen casa repeatedly helping people in same shoes as me, Advising them to apply for fiance visa and marry in uk(looks like the only alternative)
Lucky for me i have not applied spouse visa yet so there is no refusal and appeal in my case (lucky i read this forum)
Need advice on if i apply fiance visa, shall i explain and declare my second marriage that occurred in pakistan(marriage happened before i got the divorce certificate from union council, both marriages occurred in pakistan

First marriage: feb 2012
Separated: sept 2016
2nd marriage date: march 2018
(First marriage)divorce certificate issued: just waiting on it, will be issued in a week or so.

Casa, CR001 please shed some light and advice on how to go about applying, as per UK law my 2nd marriage will not b valid. i know u been helping similar cases and tired of answering same questions, will appreciate any advice from u guys or anyone. Thanks in advance

[Casa]

My previous advice stands .Apply for a fiance visa and marry in the UK. You can mention the 2nd marriage under further information. I'm sure the Case Workers see this frequently.

I do know of someone who was in this position and chose to divorce the 2nd wife in Pakistan and then re-marry her. However, I'm sure you're aware of the complications and costs involved with this.

[Faizansunny]

Casa first of all thanks alot for replying i cant b more thankful mate .

I agree with u and i told me lawyer aswell that remarrying or re registering nikkah again is a no no for me, hence Fiance route is the option. My lawyer initially said that they dont give fiance visa to pakistanis, nigerian, Algerian nationals etc.
Upon which i showed him your advices u gave here and then he came close to believing that pakistanis also had fiance visa issued to them.

M just waiting for my union council divorce certificate and am due to apply, last confusion i had was
Shall i b honest to them, declare my 2nd marriage, and explain them why am applying for fiance visa not spouse.
My question is, declaring my 2nd marriage shouldnt b a reason for refusal on fiance application or deem as me playing games with them or come across as negative???
My wife is also in my Nadra record as wife and am on hers as husband.
Just wana be 100 clear before i apply thats all.
Thanks casa mate

[seagul]

My wife is also in my Nadra record as wife and am on hers as husband.

Nadra issued national identity card where husband/wife name appears is not required for visa purpose. Your plan for fiancee visa can work partly due to your honest information but also keep in mind that under fiancee visa your partner will have to marry within 6 months. Since such matters in Pakistan are processed at extremely slow speed so your divorce certificate must be with you before her fiancee visa expiry to marry in UK.

[Casa]

My wife is also in my Nadra record as wife and am on hers as husband.

Nadra issued national identity card where husband/wife name appears is not required for visa purpose. Your plan for fiancee visa can work partly due to your honest information but also keep in mind that under fiancee visa your partner will have to marry within 6 months. Since such matters in Pakistan are processed at extremely slow speed so your divorce certificate must be with you before her fiancee visa expiry to marry in UK.

Faizansunny can't submit the fiancee visa application before his divorce from the first wife has been finalised, or it will be refused. In other words, it's not an option to simply ensure that he is legally divorced before marrying while his second wife is in the UK on a fiancee visa.

@Faizansunny By the way, I'm female but I don't object to being referred to as 'mate'

[seagul]

Thanks for repeating same meaning perhaps in different words.
OP nadra card won't be used for immigration purposes.

[Casa]

Since such matters in Pakistan are processed at extremely slow speed so your divorce certificate must be with you before her fiancee visa expiry to marry in UK.

@seagul The advice above is what I was referring to, which was incorrect and could have resulted in a grave mistake.

[seagul]

Since such matters in Pakistan are processed at extremely slow speed so your divorce certificate must be with you before her fiancee visa expiry to marry in UK.

@seagul The advice above is what I was referring to, which was incorrect and could have resulted in a grave mistake.

Nothing is incorrect because maybe you are not aware about Pakistani court/divorce system. OP is already divorced and he is just waiting the full official version of divorce certificate but depending on OP's area in Pakistan he can also get instantly the confirmation of his divorce from authorities again depend on court and its area which although wont be the full version but can be or can be not accepted for visa purposes but if it gets accepted for visa purposes then later he cannot use it for giving notice to marry. As told earlier that in Pakistan the court works with the speed lower than snail and he may not get the official version of divorce certificate without which he cannot marry in UK.I hope its clear now because the i am not denying your assumption because OP is already is divorced and can apply fiancee visa.

[Faizansunny]

@casa was under the impression u r a guy sorry.

@casa
@seagul
Thx for ur time again guys, as per discussion above i will not b applying fiance until I receive my final divorce certificate from my local union council in pakistan, i have a talaq nama on stamp paper processed while i was there with my thumb prints on it which was made a week before my 2nd marriage, still it wont b accepted bcoz final certificate is the union council one, i am not sure how strong that stamp paper is.

I have read many similar cases on here since 2016 where casa and few others are advising them to apply via fiance route, and they were successful aswell(relief for applicants like myself i guess).

My lawyer wants to take a barristers opinion on my case, lets see what he/she comes up with. So far in my little understanding, fiance visa and marry within 6 months And change into spouse.
Any further info or help is appreciated guys

[seagul]

@seagul
i have a talaq nama on stamp paper processed while i was there with my thumb prints on it which was made a week before my 2nd marriage, still it wont b accepted bcoz final certificate is the union council one, i am not sure how strong that stamp paper is.

OP is already divorced and he is just waiting the full official version of divorce certificate but depending on OP's area in Pakistan he can also get instantly the confirmation of his divorce from authorities again depend on court and its area which although wont be the full version but can be or can be not accepted for visa purposes

That was the one i was correctly referring to in my previous post. If you are not in hurry then why not you re-register your 2nd marriage in Pakistan and then straight apply spouse visa by bypassing the fiancee visa.

[Casa]

That was the one i was correctly referring to in my previous post. If you are not in hurry then why not you re-register your 2nd marriage in Pakistan and then straight apply spouse visa by bypassing the fiancee visa.

In my honest opinion, very risky.

Regarding the barrister's 'opinion', ensure your solicitor doesn't add this to his bill.

[Faizansunny]

@seagul
Trust me i am in rush to apply, its my final divorce certificate thats holding me back lol. Regarding re registering nikkah, only way to bring the marriage date forward is to get a new manual nikkah nama made and then register it, i am trying to avoid doing that. Its long, its headache running after people in pakistan.

@casa
Casa yes its £300 plus VAT for opinion, i m just going with it bcoz i have realised tht my lawyer doesn't know much about fiance route, also he thinks from pakistan fiance visa is impossible,

A case from back 2017 if u remember casa by the name @Adnan, same case as me however he was
very positive about his lawyers opinion, he ended up applying spouse and got the visa aswell. Not sure what magical loophole his lawyer came up with,

Let me know what u guys think

[Casa]

Casa yes its £300 plus VAT for opinion, i m just going with it bcoz i have realised tht my lawyer doesn't know much about fiance route, also he thinks from pakistan fiance visa is impossible. Concerning that a qualified legal professional is not familiar with the fiance route and has already given poor advice
A case from back 2017 if u remember casa by the name Adnan, same case as me however he was
very positive about his lawyers opinion, he ended up applying spouse and got the visa aswell. Not sure what magical loophole his lawyer came up with
Let me know what u guys think

Yes I recall the member's situation. You may find the post below helpful which Adnan responded to.

ECO Decision,

In your appendix 2 you have stated that your sponsor was previously married to a dual national of britain and pakistan. to evidence that this marriage has been dissolved you have submitted a divorce certificate issued by the union council in pakistan.
As your sponsors previous spouse was british your sponsor is required to submit a decree absolute issued by a uk court.

I am not satisfied that your sponsor was free to marry and that your marriage is valid. I therefore refuse your application.

"My first marriage was with a british national and we went to pakistan to get married, we subsequently seperated and my first wife went to pakistan to issue divorve proceeding through the courts in pakistan as that is where we married. she obtained the official divorce from pakistan. After i recieved the divorce, I then remarried in pakistan and applied for spouse visa, however the ECO is not accpting the divorce from pakistan. "


Where did your first marriage take place and what nationality does your first wife hold

[Faizansunny]

Cheers casa for that info,
my first marriage took place in pakistan, she was only Pakistani national with PR status in canada, i was only pakistani national with an ILR status in UK. I naturalised as btirish citizen a year after my first marriage. I never applied spouse visa for my ex wife. However she came on a visit visa to uk sponsored by my mum and me combined. She stayed a few months and returned to canada. This shouldn't effect my current situation ?

Would i also need a divorce decree from UK ? (My understanding i shouldn't have to)

I am very hopeful with this fiance route at the moment,

[seagul]

5. SET13.5 The Talaq divorce
Under traditional Islamic law a bare talaq divorce is deemed to have taken place when the husband pronounces three times ‘I divorce thee’. This pronouncement dissolves the marriage instantly.

However, the Muslim Family Law Ordinance 1961 (MFLO) sets out formal requirements for the recognition of full talaq divorces in all parts of Bangladesh and Pakistan except Azad Kashmir:

the husband must give notice in writing of the pronouncement of a talaq divorce to the Chairman of the Union Council of the Ward,
the husband must also give a copy of this notice to his wife.
At the end of 90 days (or at the end of the wife’s pregnancy if she is pregnant at this time) the divorce will take effect. There is provision for attempts at conciliation between the two parties during this 90 day period.

Only a talaq under the MFLO is considered to have been obtained by means of proceedings as defined under UK Acts.

If a full talaq divorce takes place in Bangladesh or Pakistan it will be recognised in the UK if the procedures laid down under the Muslim Family Laws Ordinance 1961 were complied with, and:

the husband or the wife is a Bangladeshi or Pakistani citizen;
or

he or she is habitually resident in Bangladesh or Pakistan;
or

he or she is domiciled in Bangladesh or Pakistan.
The MFLO procedures have not been formally extended to Azad Kashmir. The only form of divorce which can be recognised there is the traditional bare form. If a bare talaq divorce takes place in Azad Kashmir, it will be recognised in the UK only if:

the husband and wife are both domiciled in Azad Kashmir, and
neither partner has been habitually resident in the UK in the year immediately preceding the pronouncement of the divorce.
If a bare talaq divorce takes place elsewhere in Pakistan or Bangladesh, it will not be recognised in the UK.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... rces-set13

[seagul]

Cheers casa for that info,
my first marriage took place in pakistan, she was only Pakistani national with PR status in canada, i was only pakistani national with an ILR status in UK. I naturalised as btirish citizen a year after my first marriage. I never applied spouse visa for my ex wife. However she came on a visit visa to uk sponsored by my mum and me combined. She stayed a few months and returned to canada. This shouldn't effect my current situation ?

Would i also need a divorce decree from UK ? (My understanding i shouldn't have to)

I am very hopeful with this fiance route at the moment,

OP your situation is totally different. Read my quote in previous post from official source.

[Faizansunny]

5. SET13.5 The Talaq divorce
Under traditional Islamic law a bare talaq divorce is deemed to have taken place when the husband pronounces three times ‘I divorce thee’. This pronouncement dissolves the marriage instantly.

However, the Muslim Family Law Ordinance 1961 (MFLO) sets out formal requirements for the recognition of full talaq divorces in all parts of Bangladesh and Pakistan except Azad Kashmir:

the husband must give notice in writing of the pronouncement of a talaq divorce to the Chairman of the Union Council of the Ward,
the husband must also give a copy of this notice to his wife.
At the end of 90 days (or at the end of the wife’s pregnancy if she is pregnant at this time) the divorce will take effect. There is provision for attempts at conciliation between the two parties during this 90 day period.

Only a talaq under the MFLO is considered to have been obtained by means of proceedings as defined under UK Acts.

If a full talaq divorce takes place in Bangladesh or Pakistan it will be recognised in the UK if the procedures laid down under the Muslim Family Laws Ordinance 1961 were complied with, and:
this means my union council divorce certificate will be accepted by uk home office since it complies with family law ordinance 1961 (hence no decree of absolute from UK is required) correct me if am understanding it wrong
the husband or the wife is a Bangladeshi or Pakistani citizen;
or

he or she is habitually resident in Bangladesh or Pakistan;
or

he or she is domiciled in Bangladesh or Pakistan.
The MFLO procedures have not been formally extended to Azad Kashmir. The only form of divorce which can be recognised there is the traditional bare form. If a bare talaq divorce takes place in Azad Kashmir, it will be recognised in the UK only if:

the husband and wife are both domiciled in Azad Kashmir, and
neither partner has been habitually resident in the UK in the year immediately preceding the pronouncement of the divorce.
If a bare talaq divorce takes place elsewhere in Pakistan or Bangladesh, it will not be recognised in the UK.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... rces-set13

[seagul]

this means my union council divorce certificate will be accepted by uk home office since it complies with family law ordinance 1961 (hence no decree of absolute from UK is required) correct me if am understanding it wrong [/color][/b]

Yes and you wont need any UK decree absolute. Preferably the same official quote you can add in your covering letter to refresh the caseworker's knowledge about it.

[Faizansunny]

@seagul
Thats one big relief since i was worried i might need one from uk aswell.
I am just waiting on my union council certificate of divorce and once i got that i am ready to apply fiance unless some lawyer comes up with something very strong on spouse route(like adnans case few years ago lol)
I ll be seeking another lawyers opinion just to be extra sure as to which route to take(so far my heart goes with fiance)
I will b sharing with u guys as i go along with it,

Appreciate how u guys help people like my self with ur advices, lawyers that charge money dont give honest opinion these days sadly
Thank u guys once again
@seagul
@casa

[Faizansunny]

My previous advice stands .Apply for a fiance visa and marry in the UK. You can mention the 2nd marriage under further information. I'm sure the Case Workers see this frequently.

I do know of someone who was in this position and chose to divorce the 2nd wife in Pakistan and then re-marry her. However, I'm sure you're aware of the complications and costs involved with this.

Hey Casa,
Quik update and quik question
We have applied fiance, done online form paid fee, partner has been to biometrics in pakistan.
Now i will be going to vfs office to scan my documents in london. (Would i be doing biometrics too)?
My confusion is that will i still send the documents to Sheffield after vfs scanning? Or the applying process finishes there at scanning at vfs?
Would appreciate your help as always )

[Casa]

My previous advice stands .Apply for a fiance visa and marry in the UK. You can mention the 2nd marriage under further information. I'm sure the Case Workers see this frequently.

I do know of someone who was in this position and chose to divorce the 2nd wife in Pakistan and then re-marry her. However, I'm sure you're aware of the complications and costs involved with this.

Hey Casa,
Quik update and quik question
We have applied fiance, done online form paid fee, partner has been to biometrics in pakistan.
Now i will be going to vfs office to scan my documents in london. (Would i be doing biometrics too)?
My confusion is that will i still send the documents to Sheffield after vfs scanning? Or the applying process finishes there at scanning at vfs?
Would appreciate your help as always )

Please continue to post in your own topic instead of tagging your question onto the end of old thread which has no relevance to your application.

[CR001]

My previous advice stands .Apply for a fiance visa and marry in the UK. You can mention the 2nd marriage under further information. I'm sure the Case Workers see this frequently.

I do know of someone who was in this position and chose to divorce the 2nd wife in Pakistan and then re-marry her. However, I'm sure you're aware of the complications and costs involved with this.

Hey Casa,
Quik update and quik question
We have applied fiance, done online form paid fee, partner has been to biometrics in pakistan.
Now i will be going to vfs office to scan my documents in london. (Would i be doing biometrics too)?
My confusion is that will i still send the documents to Sheffield after vfs scanning? Or the applying process finishes there at scanning at vfs?
Would appreciate your help as always )

Please continue to post in your own topic instead of tagging your question onto the end of old thread which has no relevance to your application.

Some tea?? This is the users topic

[TODMATT]

"Hey Casa,
Quik update and quik question
We have applied fiance, done online form paid fee, partner has been to biometrics in pakistan.
Now i will be going to vfs office to scan my documents in london. (Would i be doing biometrics too)?
My confusion is that will i still send the documents to Sheffield after vfs scanning? Or the applying process finishes there at scanning at vfs?
Would appreciate your help as always "

You don't do biometrics at the VFS office in UK but applicants will need to submit their biometrics at the VAC and you don't need to send documents to Sheffield.

[seagul]

Or the applying process finishes there at scanning at vfs?

[Faizansunny]

Todmatt
Seagul
My fiance has already attened her biometrics in pakistan. Now i will be going to vfs global office in london to scan further documents and evidence.
Am i following the right procedure?