INIS treating Pakistanis and Africans differently?

[littlerr]

Legally speaking, to sue someone for facial discrimination, you need solid proof that another person is given preferential treatment because of their nationality/race/skin colour. It could be quite difficult especially because You need to find persons from other countries who have very similar lifestyle as yours.

As I mentioned a few times, I am a Chinese National working in Ireland for 5 years. I applied for naturalisation as soon as the 5 year is passed.
I have a friend and colleague who is British. He has worked here for 20 years.
We have Same jobs. Similar salary. Neither of us have any offences in Ireland.
We applied in July 2018. I got naturalised this April, while his application was still in first stage.
Any reason for the slowness for this British person? Absolutely no idea, but you won’t be able to say that British applicants are getting preferential treatments at least.

[Bippin]

Have you got proof for this? I am not from Africa nor Pakistan but i have friends from those countries and got approval in a reasonable time , talk like less than a year especially Pakistani woman friend of mine she got approval less than eight months as she has a strong solid proof here, never move an address ,stay at same jobs since she moved here. Myself applied on Late April or early May this year all i having now from INIS is a second stage letter asked for more paperwork nothing else.

[usmanch313]

Very rare cases they give approval in a year or less than.
I know very personally people from Pakistan who applied in January 2017 Base on marriage with Irish citizens and still wating .
Second person applied in April 2017 no response yet .
Thirld friend wife applied in March 18 nothing yet.
4th person applied in July 18 nothing yet.

5th person friend wife base on Refugees applied in June 17 nothing yet.
They are all Pakistani.
These all cases is proof because I know these people very personally, I'm totally agreed with this oppinion that DOJ and INIS are treating unfairly with these nationalities.

[Statusquo73]

Hi guys,

What I suggest is lets contact some of the journalist, reporters who covered Citizenship issue recently..
If at least 5-6 people email those people They will put on their newspaper.
Imagine a topic like " Citizenship applicants cannot leave Ireland for a year" made a huge noise. Now if we push and tell them our story ( even anonymously) It will be a great topic to cover for them.\
I bbelive we have 2 option, MEDIA or Judical Review.

Meanhile I write myself to journalists and ask them to put this topic on their newspaper.
However we we all together do it It will make a difference. I need your help on this guys....

Lets acts together.

[Alixlboy]

Very rare cases they give approval in a year or less than.
I know very personally people from Pakistan who applied in January 2017 Base on marriage with Irish citizens and still wating .
Second person applied in April 2017 no response yet .
Thirld friend wife applied in March 18 nothing yet.
4th person applied in July 18 nothing yet.

5th person friend wife base on Refugees applied in June 17 nothing yet.
They are all Pakistani.
These all cases is proof because I know these people very personally, I'm totally agreed with this oppinion that DOJ and INIS are treating unfairly with these nationalities.

Exactly. I personally know such people myself. Statistics about how many people from these nationalities attended previous ceremonies are enough for a proof.

[Alixlboy]

Hi guys,

What I suggest is lets contact some of the journalist, reporters who covered Citizenship issue recently..
If at least 5-6 people email those people They will put on their newspaper.
Imagine a topic like " Citizenship applicants cannot leave Ireland for a year" made a huge noise. Now if we push and tell them our story ( even anonymously) It will be a great topic to cover for them.\
I bbelive we have 2 option, MEDIA or Judical Review.

Meanhile I write myself to journalists and ask them to put this topic on their newspaper.
However we we all together do it It will make a difference. I need your help on this guys....

Lets acts together.

Brilliant idea! Thanks.

[Alixlboy]

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/pr ... -waterford

Check out the above. The relevant countries got almost zero approvals in the previous ceremony. Not even in the list. How unfair and ridiculous. Even the ceremony before this one had no people attending from these countries that I have mentioned. These stats and facts can be used while writing to the journalists and/or going legal against the current Minister of Injustice and Inequality.

[White_Pearl]

Duplicate reply, MOD please delete.

[White_Pearl]

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/pr ... -waterford

Check out the above. The relevant countries got almost zero approvals in the previous ceremony. Not even in the list. How unfair and ridiculous. Even the ceremony before this one had no people attending from these countries that I have mentioned. These stats and facts can be used while writing to the journalists and/or going legal against the current Minister of Injustice and Inequality.

FYI

Only a total of 458 are mentioned in the top 10 list, the other about 200 can be pakistani/african nationals.

But there must be other material available aswell online which you can use when you will write to journalists and there are also real life examples from your surroundings available, if those people are willing to put their hands up together with you.

I am not here to put your moral down, but there is a real life friend of mine, spouse of irish cit./ pakistani who got his approval in 8months (in 2017).
So really, dont know what they really look at when making a decision that for one it goes that quickly and for the other it can take more than 3 yrs. good luck with it

[markem]

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/pr ... -waterford

Check out the above. The relevant countries got almost zero approvals in the previous ceremony. Not even in the list. How unfair and ridiculous. Even the ceremony before this one had no people attending from these countries that I have mentioned. These stats and facts can be used while writing to the journalists and/or going legal against the current Minister of Injustice and Inequality.

The list on that page is only the top ten countries at that ceremony. There are people from other countries not listed there.

Besides, this is really not a good way of making the argument. You need to know how many people from those countries actually applied to know if this is good or bad.

[Alixlboy]

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/pr ... -waterford

Check out the above. The relevant countries got almost zero approvals in the previous ceremony. Not even in the list. How unfair and ridiculous. Even the ceremony before this one had no people attending from these countries that I have mentioned. These stats and facts can be used while writing to the journalists and/or going legal against the current Minister of Injustice and Inequality.

FYI

Only a total of 458 are mentioned in the top 10 list, the other about 200 can be pakistani/african nationals.

But there must be other material available aswell online which you can use when you will write to journalists and there are also real life examples from your surroundings available, if those people are willing to put their hands up together with you.

I am not here to put your moral down, but there is a real life friend of mine, spouse of irish cit./ pakistani who got his approval in 8months (in 2017).
So really, dont know what they really look at when making a decision that for one it goes that quickly and for the other it can take more than 3 yrs. good luck with it

Common sense. If Afghanistan, Pakistan etc were in those 200, they would be in the top 10.

[Alixlboy]

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/pr ... -waterford

Check out the above. The relevant countries got almost zero approvals in the previous ceremony. Not even in the list. How unfair and ridiculous. Even the ceremony before this one had no people attending from these countries that I have mentioned. These stats and facts can be used while writing to the journalists and/or going legal against the current Minister of Injustice and Inequality.

The list on that page is only the top ten countries at that ceremony. There are people from other countries not listed there.

Besides, this is really not a good way of making the argument. You need to know how many people from those countries actually applied to know if this is good or bad.

The last country had 10 people attending. If the relevant countries were there, why would they not include them in the top 10? God knows where the remaining hidden 200 people exactly came from, but any other nationality had at least less than 9 guys.
Easy and simple analysis of the given statistics shows this fact.

[Alixlboy]

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/pr ... h-citizens

Here again the last country in the top ten shows 61 people attending.
I remember some Pakistani people protesting on the same forum when they saw these statistics.
Let's all trying and help those suffering due to this situation and not make it hard for them.
There are hundreds waiting for approval and only approving 9 max is a joke I believe.

[littlerr]

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/pr ... -waterford

Check out the above. The relevant countries got almost zero approvals in the previous ceremony. Not even in the list. How unfair and ridiculous. Even the ceremony before this one had no people attending from these countries that I have mentioned. These stats and facts can be used while writing to the journalists and/or going legal against the current Minister of Injustice and Inequality.

The list on that page is only the top ten countries at that ceremony. There are people from other countries not listed there.

Besides, this is really not a good way of making the argument. You need to know how many people from those countries actually applied to know if this is good or bad.

The last country had 10 people attending. If the relevant countries were there, why would they not include them in the top 10? God knows where the remaining hidden 200 people exactly came from, but any other nationality had at least less than 9 guys.
Easy and simple analysis of the given statistics shows this fact.

No that’s not how you use statistics. The onus is on you to demonstrate how many people of these nations live in Ireland and how many of them have applied for naturalisation during this period. You can get these figures from CSO and by raising parliamentary questions via your TD.

[Alixlboy]

You must all have read the news of an African national calling ireland a prison. How many statistics did he use?
Where have you all come up with this idea of statistics being a mandatory requirement for approaching the media or protesting against unfair treatment?
These are just guidelines and please take them as a guideline only.
My personal circumstances are enough of a proof for me to give me the right to protest.
We must not fuel these arguments by giving opinions not meant to help people get rid of this problem.
No more arguments from me as I am not a rocket science teacher.
Members can read all comments and concerns and are wise enough to understand what their next course of action should be.

[markem]

You must all have read the news of an African national calling ireland a prison. How many statistics did he use?

That isn't a great example to use. It came across as hyperbolic.

Where have you all come up with this idea of statistics being a mandatory requirement for approaching the media or protesting against unfair treatment? These are just guidelines and please take them as a guideline only.
My personal circumstances are enough of a proof for me to give me the right to protest.

You can do whatever you like. But be warned that people (including the media) might not see the problem you believe exists. You're trying to make a generalisation about whole countries being discriminated against, based on a handful of examples. That's like me saying "all cars are black" based on the five I can see out my window right now.

We must not fuel these arguments by giving opinions not meant to help people get rid of this problem.

I'm going to look at the arguments based on facts.

[masterboy123]

Please remember :

The granting of Irish citizenship through naturalisation is a privilege, and not a right.

[Alixlboy]

Please remember :

The granting of Irish citizenship through naturalisation is a privilege, and not a right.

True.
But protesting against unfair treatment is our right.

[masterboy123]

No harm in trying but they have clause which will protect the department and I doubt it will bring any change.

Please remember :

The granting of Irish citizenship through naturalisation is a privilege, and not a right.

True.
But protesting against unfair treatment is our right.

[Omad24]

The man from the article was given a ticket over ten years ago with the cop claiming his disc is expired he peeled it out and said it was not. They went to court together and he was told to pay anyways. He applied for citizenship and was denied 10 years ago for a record. He then was given a wait time then told he may apply again after such time has passed. When he applied he was denied again

[Alixlboy]

No harm in trying but they have clause which will protect the department and I doubt it will bring any change.

Please remember :

The granting of Irish citizenship through naturalisation is a privilege, and not a right.

True.
But protesting against unfair treatment is our right.

In previous such cases, judges have asked them to explain and give the reason for not giving approval within 6 months, so no clause protects them as such.

[Alixlboy]

The man from the article was given a ticket over ten years ago with the cop claiming his disc is expired he peeled it out and said it was not. They went to court together and he was told to pay anyways. He applied for citizenship and was denied 10 years ago for a record. He then was given a wait time then told he may apply again after such time has passed. When he applied he was denied again

I think that s not fair towards the man. He was given a chance but no chance as a matter of fact.

[Omad24]

The man from the article was given a ticket over ten years ago with the cop claiming his disc is expired he peeled it out and said it was not. They went to court together and he was told to pay anyways. He applied for citizenship and was denied 10 years ago for a record. He then was given a wait time then told he may apply again after such time has passed. When he applied he was denied again

I think that s not fair towards the man. He was given a chance but no chance as a matter of fact.

It’s ridiculous someone can denied for a ticket. Then on top of that denied again after waiting 10 years

Absolutely ridiculous

[markem]

Here are some facts. 364 Pakistani nationals were granted citizenship in 2018. More than the Philippines, China, Brazil, USA and many others (page 16). This was about 4.5% of the total.

But is that good or bad? The best point of comparison is that 645 from Pakistan applied for citizenship in 2017 (page 15 of the previous report).

To make it comparable, make it a ratio of 645:364 or 1.77 applications : 1 approval in the following calendar year. A lower ratio would mean applications are approved more quickly.

As comparison, here are a few selected countries:

• Latvia: 407 and 308 (1.3:1)
• China: 311 and 234 (1.3:1)
• Philippines: 418 and 320 (1.3:1)
• Poland: 1754 and 1464 (1.2:1)
• India: 778 and 629 (1.2:1)

[Alixlboy]

The man from the article was given a ticket over ten years ago with the cop claiming his disc is expired he peeled it out and said it was not. They went to court together and he was told to pay anyways. He applied for citizenship and was denied 10 years ago for a record. He then was given a wait time then told he may apply again after such time has passed. When he applied he was denied again

I think that s not fair towards the man. He was given a chance but no chance as a matter of fact.

It’s ridiculous someone can denied for a ticket. Then on top of that denied again after waiting 10 years

Absolutely ridiculous

Exactly
And such a person is absolutely right in calling this country a prison.