Wife's visa rejected - lack of evidence on subsisting marria

[frnd4u81]

Dear All,
My wife and I are shattered with visa application refusal (Dependent visa for Tier 2 General). We got married in December 2016. She applied for visa few days ago and received refusal letter today.

We were planning everything for her arrival in May 2017. My mother-in-law was bed-ridden and my wife wanted to support her recovery. This was the reason why we didn't apply immediately after the marriage. I am not sure not applying immediate is a reason for refusal?.....

Any advice by experienced people will be very helpful. We are planning for administrative review and seeking advice for it. Please find below the excerpt of the refusal letter.

Million thanks to you.
Magesh
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As an evidence of your marriage, you have submitted a marriage registration certificate which shows you got married on XXYYZZZZ. Whilst I accept that your marriage took place, I am also required to be satisfied that your marriage is subsisting.
I acknowledge that your marriage may be a traditionally matched marriage and it is usual for this type of marriage to occur in India but I must be satisfied that you intend to live with your sponsor as husband and wife once you are in the UK. You have provided no evidence to show why you and your sponsor were matching by your families, an explanation as to why you both considered the union to be a good match.
If this is not a traditionally matched marriage then I would expect to see evidence of how you met, the development of your relationship and of your life together before and after marriage. Whilst you have submitted screenshots of internet calling history, these have been printed by you and therefore little weight is given to them. You have provided no satisfactory evidence of how you are supported in India or that you are supported by your spouse in the UK. I am not satisfied that you have demonstrated that your marriage is subsisting or that you intend to live together as your sponsor's spouse throughout applicant's stay in the United Kingdom.
I consider that you have not provided any satisfactory basis upon which I might asses your circumstances or the likelihood of your intention being to leave the UK on the completion of your proposed visit. I am not satisfied that you are genuinely seeking entry to the UK for the period stated or that you intend to leave.
I have therefore refused your application because I am not satisfied, on the balance of probabilities that you meet all the requirements of the relevant paragraph of the UK immigration rules.

[seagul]

What was the type of visa you applied?
What is meant by traditional match marriage? Is it an arranged marriage by parents/family members where usually the partners start building relationship interaction after marriage?

[frnd4u81]

Dear Seagul. Many thanks for your reply.
>>What was the type of visa you applied?
Tier 2 General dependent
>>What is meant by traditional match marriage? Is it an arranged marriage by parents/family members where usually the partners start building relationship interaction after marriage?
It was an arranged marriage by parents. We liked and loved each other and hence accepted for marriage.

[seagul]

If it's arranged marriage then case worker must consider the traditional and cultural factors of marriage where couple don't have much interaction before marriage but after marriage till application time there must be regular susbsting relationship evidences. But here problems come where if there is an arranged marriage but spouse visa application is being made soon after marriage then what can be subsisting relationship evidences??

[CR001]

I consider that you have not provided any satisfactory basis upon which I might asses your circumstances or the likelihood of your intention being to leave the UK on the completion of your proposed visit. I am not satisfied that you are genuinely seeking entry to the UK for the period stated or that you intend to leave.
I have therefore refused your application because I am not satisfied, on the balance of probabilities that you meet all the requirements of the relevant paragraph of the UK immigration rules.

This sounds almost word for word what they say for a visitor visa refusal.

What evidence did you submit of subsisting relationship?

Many people do not apply immediately after marriage ceremony, so no, that would not be a reason for refusal.

[seagul]

In my point of view as above mentioned that it was arranged marriage and the visa is applied soon after it which led to create less subsisting relationship evidences but it should not be refusal reason because case worker should consider the factors of arranged marriage which he/she ignored. That decision should be asked for reconsideration on priority basis instead dragging into appeal queque.

[frnd4u81]

Dear Seagul and CR001.
Thank you for replies.

Yes. I typed word by word to seek advice from the forum members.

We both are shocked apart from parents. Both my parents and in-laws are senior citizens. They are undergoing stress apart from we two.

We submitted visa application with Marriage certificate, invitation, wedding photos,
I have taken print out of call logs in whatsapp from August 2016 to Feb 2017 (few days before visa application). I have submitted my supporting letter. I have sent original tenancy agreement of a two bedroom flat, in which I am the only occupant now. In my supporting letter I have clearly stated that I will take care of all her expenses and she will live with me in the same address.

1. Should I send the receipts of the gifts what we exchanged before marriage and after marriage?
2. Should I send a copy of the e-card I proposed my love for her before the marriage.
3. Should I send a copy of money transfer receipt of money to her account (my UK account to her India account).
4. We have taken screenshots of Skype calls for personal memories before and after marriage. Should I share those?

I didnt have enough time to open a joint account in India given it was year end. I had my job restarting on 3-Jan.
It has been very agonizing feeling.
We both are in love (much before marriage), are husband and wife and value marriage. And what evidence to show to prove these for the case worker?
Somehow I continue to have faith in UK system and have been doing my level best to reassure my wife. Has been very drained.

[CR001]

1. Should I send the receipts of the gifts what we exchanged before marriage and after marriage?
2. Should I send a copy of the e-card I proposed my love for her before the marriage.
3. Should I send a copy of money transfer receipt of money to her account (my UK account to her India account).
4. We have taken screenshots of Skype calls for personal memories before and after marriage. Should I share those?

Yes to all of these. You should have sent them.

The call logs should have been screen shots.

We both are in love (much before marriage)

This contradicts what you are saying about it being an 'arranged marriage'

[frnd4u81]

>>The call logs should have been screen shots.
yes it was screenshots of whatsapp calls and the caseworker says that "Whilst you have submitted screenshots of internet calling history, these have been printed by you and therefore little weight is given to them."
I have been using WhatsApp and Skype and rarely call using phone as it is expensive. It was screenshot and apparently the caseworker is not fully happy about it.

>>We both are in love (much before marriage)
>>This contradicts what you are saying about it being an 'arranged marriage'
Why people cant fall in love in arranged marriage? What contradiction you see here?

[CR001]

>>We both are in love (much before marriage)
>>This contradicts what you are saying about it being an 'arranged marriage'
Why people cant fall in love in arranged marriage? What contradiction you see here?

You have said both are in in love (MUCH BEFORE MARRIAGE), implying you were in love even before marriage so how can it be an 'arranged marriage'.

[seagul]

Another dilemma that maybe you told them that you started relation before marriage then you didn't provide subsisting relation evidences even you have that may confused caseworker

[frnd4u81]

I haven't told anywhere about being in love before marriage to the case worker or in the application. This point has come to my mind because as per the refusal letter the caseworker seems to doubt the marriage and whether we will live as husband and wife. I am able to understand why this might confuse.

I am not sure wherethe administrative review application to be sent. Though the refusal. letter mentions about an enclosed copy of "administrative review request notice and guidance on the administrative review process". But my wife confirmed that there was no enclosure received with the refusal letter except her passport.

I checked in internet and located administrative review application from gov UK website. Not sure if the version is the most recent. The following are instructions as per the administrative review application.

>>You must return this notice to the address below, as given by the Post that issued your Refusal Notice, within
28 days of receipt of the decision to refuse your entry clearance application. You may deliver it by hand or send it
by mail/courier, e-mail or fax.

Not sure which address should my wife send the administrative review application? Is there any email-id where to send the application ? Should she call VFS or any other helpline in India? Are there any other documents missing? Please advice.

[Obie]

There was no appeal rights right?

I am a bit troubled by this refusal, as stated before, it appears to relate to visitors visa as opposed to to a Tier 2 Dependent visa.

That alone will meet the requirement for Admin review, which is caseworking error.

The difficulties with admin review is that new evidence may not be considered, therefore I hope that sufficient proof had been provided.

Was there no right of appeal.

[frnd4u81]

Dear Obie, Thank you for your reply.
The application was for Tier 2 depedant only.

>>The difficulties with admin review is that new evidence may not be considered, therefore I hope that sufficient proof had been provided.
oh. I didnt realise that. I cannot provide new evidence?
Do you mean I have to reapply fresh? That would cost me application fee and NHS surcharge.

The refusal letter describes about administrative review and also says that " a request for review must be made on the administrative review request notice provided"....."The address to send this is on the administrative review notice" But no such enclosure was provided with the refusal letter.

Please advice me which number to contact or any email-id to write to.

[Obie]

NHS is usually refunded, but application fees aren't .

[frnd4u81]

There was no appeal rights right?

I read few times and couldn't see details about appeal.
I am not a legal professional and hence reading these and to understand what is required is horrifying.

[Obie]

See Admin Review provision

[frnd4u81]

Dear Obie. Thank you for the link. I have downloaded the application from it. But dont know which address to post or email-id to send. Supposedly the address should have been specified in the refusal letter which is not the case. Do you recommend contacting a solicitor or lawyer for advices. I feel lost....

[frnd4u81]

Dear Orie, Since I didn't provide evidences such as money transfered receipt, proof of exchanging gifts,etc and from your reply I also understand that no additional evidence can be submitted with administrative review application, it appears that I have to go for reapplying. Both of us are feeling very stressed out with this unexpected turn of events.

[Obie]

I believe the decision must be challenged on the basis of the procedure or the law, rather than seeking to alter any conclusion by seeking to provide new evidence.

[seagul]

I want an overturn of decision on priority basis. Few years ago in EU route many applicant ask for reconsideration of wrong decision straight to caseworker but I don't know whether it applies in UK route applications too. Caseworker didn't consider the factors in arranged narriage to be taken in to account in your decision but I do regret too that you had sent those evidences which you didn't sent

[frnd4u81]

Yes I too deeply regret. I spoke to some of my friends to know about documentation they submittedd less than a month before successfully. I did the same. In my case I have refusal. I have studied here and. Have lived for a while in UK. Everything looks shattered. I can only hope they will take a fresh look when I reapply. Administrative review doesn't seem to be a possibility as sufficient details about where to send the application was not provided.

[Obie]

Forms must be returned to post that refused previous application.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... a-decision

[frnd4u81]

Obie. Thank you for the link.
Just to update. I consulted an immigration lawyer he was of the opinion that only if they make calculation error or a mistake, administrative review comes out positive. It most cases they hold it for 28 days and comes out as dead end only.
In my case, he believes that giving additional documents will make my case stronger. He was also suggesting that I go back and stay with her for couple of weeks and then re-apply (as a suggestion).
It has been draining already to say the least.
1. Is there any email or call centre to inform that I won't go for an administrative review?
2. I presume we have to wait for NHS surcharge to be refunded but have to pay NHS surcharge for reapplying?
3. We are planning to reapply. The lawyer suggested to draft a detailed letter explaining facts about 'before marriage, marriage and after marriage' to substantiate subsisting marriage.

I really feel the whole process to be dubious. The marriage certificate had MEA Apostille before submission. But they have doubt on marriage background and its subsistence. The so-called refusal letter didn't contain the postal address/email where I have to send the administrative review form.

I really hope we survive this.

[Obie]

I suppose your solicitors is entitled to his views. However mine are at variance with his.

I think if satisfaction about your marriage was the only issue, they ought to have put you on notice and invite presentation.

Furthermore I found it troubling that the decision maker , not sure if it was your case or another, was treatin the application as a visitors visa and said your wife will not return.

Very strange.