Grandmother deported after ILR revoked

[Casa]

Grandmother Irene Clennell has sadly lost her fight to remain in the UK after ILR was revoked due to time spent outside of the UK during her 30 years residence. She was deported to Singapore today, leaving behind her British husband of 27 years, British children and grandchildren

https://www.buzzfeed.com/emilydugan/a-g ... .of3MoymyV

[Kashif_Hussain]

Not long ago, Britain was "Great" but sadly not anymore...

[seagul]

Why she hadn't applied UK citizenship long ago.

[bathanza]

Read this today, was pretty upsetting knowing that sort of power is exerted. Not like she posed a threat to the UK now did she. Wonder what the full story is as some route could have been sought after? Article 8 FLR FP if they cannot afford the 18k spousal? Shame really..

[vinny]

Apparently, she didn't currently have ILR to be revoked.

She has been using visitor’s visas for several years now while application after application for leave to remain has been rejected.

[seagul]

Case finally reached in BBC where home office says she had lost her residential status and they can't tolerate that and any new application will be dealt with its own merit.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39099574

[Casa]

Apparently, she didn't currently have ILR to be revoked.

She has been using visitor’s visas for several years now while application after application for leave to remain has been rejected.

Thanks for the link Vinny.

My understanding is that after her ILR was revoked due to being out of the UK for over the permitted 2 years caring for her parents in Singapore, she had been entering on a series of visitor visas.

[vinny]

I wonder if she initially tried to apply for entry clearance as a returning resident?

[chickpea]

I logged in today to see what the board here had to say on this, particularly moderators.

I am concerned and angry about the outcry. Is more known that is public that I haven't seen? My understanding from what I have read is that she was in the UK on and off for 30 years but never had an ILR. The story I read said she had LTR and sometimes used visitor visas.

Please correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is:
1. If you enter as a spouse on a visitor visa you cannot apply to stay. Also that it may jeopardise your chances of success for a LTR or ILR visa?
2. That we don't know how many times she has entered and left, or how many times she may/may not have overstayed a visa. Possibly many, over 30 years?
3. That while people are screaming about the minimum salary req't, we all have to deal with it and there are ways around it through savings etc etc. So yelling about that being the "reason" for deportation just makes me angrier. Didn't the court uphold the req't? Anyone know how long the ££ req'ts have been in place? (I am guessing a long time.) [Edit: found post here that says since 2012]
4. We don't know if she was warned once or many times that her failure to obey rules and stay without a valid visa would result in deportation... correct?
5. Finally, only she and the HO can know the details and obviously the HO cannot discuss her case specifically due to data protection laws etc.

I'm so tired of arguing with people who think that just because someone is a spouse of a citizen they can walk in and stay! We have all, here. worked very very hard to obey the rules and jump through the hoops. They are a pain, yes, but they exist because people abuse rules and laws. So we have to obey them. It's part of being in a democracy.

Interested in others' thoughts. I definitely think the circumstances in this case were sad and terrible etc., but I think we don't (can't) know enough to make a judgment call here. Can we?!?!

[Casa]

I logged in today to see what the board here had to say on this, particularly moderators.

I am concerned and angry about the outcry. Is more known that is public that I haven't seen? My understanding from what I have read is that she was in the UK on and off for 30 years but never had an ILR. The story I read said she had LTR and sometimes used visitor visas.

Please correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is:
1. If you enter as a spouse on a visitor visa you cannot apply to stay. Also that it may jeopardise your chances of success for a LTR or ILR visa?
2. That we don't know how many times she has entered and left, or how many times she may/may not have overstayed a visa. Possibly many, over 30 years?
3. That while people are screaming about the minimum salary req't, we all have to deal with it and there are ways around it through savings etc etc. So yelling about that being the "reason" for deportation just makes me angrier. Didn't the court uphold the req't? Anyone know how long the ££ req'ts have been in place? (I am guessing a long time.) [Edit: found post here that says since 2012]
4. We don't know if she was warned once or many times that her failure to obey rules and stay without a valid visa would result in deportation... correct?
5. Finally, only she and the HO can know the details and obviously the HO cannot discuss her case specifically due to data protection laws etc.

I'm so tired of arguing with people who think that just because someone is a spouse of a citizen they can walk in and stay! We have all, here. worked very very hard to obey the rules and jump through the hoops. They are a pain, yes, but they exist because people abuse rules and laws. So we have to obey them. It's part of being in a democracy.

Interested in others' thoughts. I definitely think the circumstances in this case were sad and terrible etc., but I think we don't (can't) know enough to make a judgment call here. Can we?!?!

Unless the BBC have mis-reported the facts, you will see from the previous link:

Mrs Clennell, who had been living in Chester-le-Street, was given indefinite leave in 1992 to remain in the UK after her marriage - but this lapsed because she lived outside the UK for more than two years.

My intention when opening this thread was primarily for members to be aware that ILR can be lost if excessive time is spent outside of the UK.

[Wanderer]

As we all know, ignorance of the law is no defence, she messed up, full stop.

Whilst leniency would be nice in these situations we all know what the effect is, people jumping on the bandwagon and clogging the courts at the tax-payers expense.

Rather than castigate the UKVI for applying the rules, lets look at this under-current we have in Ingsoc lately, namely this 'I didn't know, it's not my fault therefore let me off' leitmotif....

Time for a Lemsip......

[bathanza]

So moral of the story: stick to the rules until you have permanent stay if you're a NON EEA citizen

[Wanderer]

So moral of the story: stick to the rules until you have permanent stay if you're a NON EEA citizen

Or naturalise. Just can't think why the person in question never did.....

[Casa]

So moral of the story: stick to the rules until you have permanent stay if you're a NON EEA citizen

Note that the issue here is that ILR & PR can be revoked if a single absence from the UK exceeds a 2 year period.

[bathanza]

So moral of the story: stick to the rules until you have permanent stay if you're a NON EEA citizen

Note that the issue here is that ILR & PR can be revoked if a single absence from the UK exceeds a 2 year period.

What..... will have to keep an eye on that one now!

Ok, so have to reword it again, stick to the rules until you get British citizenship!!

[Obie]

I despise this government's immigration policies. They are the worse in my generation. The most rabid right wing Zealots i have ever seen in my living memory.

Having said so, i believe Irene Clennell's decision was lawful.

This person was not a returning residence as she has lost her indefinite Leave to remain. In the eyes of the law, she is like everyone else coming to the UK , and therefore from a legal perspective, the decision is correct.

On a moral and compassionate basis, the decision is the most cruel and inhuman that I have seen for a whiles.

I think it is more disheartening than the Scottish Case.

However there is an exceptionally unique factor in the Scottish case, which Irene will never be fortunate to have.

[chickpea]

Note that the issue here is that ILR & PR can be revoked if a single absence from the UK exceeds a 2 year period.

Thanks Casa, understood.
I think a couple of other points are very worth clarifying in this thread, especially for people seeking information. Mainly they relate to my questions 1 & 4 above.

The BBC article does not state how many times she came in/out recently or what visa she used. Casa, you mention visitor visas (upthread). So, just hoping to clarify how dangerous it is for people to enter as visitors when they are actually spouses?

The BBC article is clear she had a number of rejected applications, so again, my Q4, presumably she'd been warned before ending up in detention?

Thanks all for replies. Agree it seems unjust/inhuman, but as someone said: ignorance isn't a defense for breaking rules/laws.

[vinny]

The case of Irene Clennell and the rules on returning residents with ILR.

[Babajee85]

So this is only with ILR...But if you have British passport then you can be out of county as long as you want ...

am i right folks ?

[CR001]

So this is only with ILR...But if you have British passport then you can be out of county as long as you want ...

am i right folks ?

Correct.

[Linda2uk]

It's sad to see that happened. I am also very worried now on my case. I am holding my ILR for quite a number of years and didn't apply citizenship. The reason is china doesn't accept dual nationality. Now my passport was stolen in Spain and I lost my sticker ILR visa. I applied for Vignette transfer visa, but it's not that simple, I have been waiting for over a month, but don't know how long I still have to wait and don't know what the result will be.

I have been living in U.K. Over 15 years, and work for the same company over 10 years before I lost my passport. Now, I have home and can't return...no details info was given to me regard on my case, I was left completely in dark...

I don't know...I totally agree and would recommend anyone holding ILR to apply citizenship. Otherwise you never know if you are still safe when things happen.

[seagul]

I think this thread is irrelevant here and must be moved to its relevant forum.