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EU & Brexit Deal

This is the area of this board to discuss the referendum taking place in the UK on 23rd June 2016. Also to discuss the ramifications of the EU-UK deal.

Differing views will be respected. Rudeness to other members will not be welcome.

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, Administrator

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secret.simon
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by secret.simon » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:49 am

bruteforce wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:40 pm
I suspect she will just give up & quit at some point, just like Cameron.
I doubt it. There is no alternative (TINA). Assuming that we are Brexiting, nobody on the Leave side is competent enough to take over her role. And somebody on the Remain side would not be trusted.
The constitution of this Parliament means that the DUP hold the balance of power and they will not support Corbyn (due to his IRA sympathies). And Labour will not get rid of him (not for lack of trying). Thus we will have the Conservatives in power for the next few years.
The leading lights in the Conservative Party to be next Prime Minister are Bojo (really??), Jacob Rees-Mogg and Amber Rudd. I thought Amber Rudd has done a pretty good job at the Home Office, but then look at what happened to the previous occupant of that post.
So, really, for the time being, we are stuck with Theresa May.
And I believe that like the Queen, she has a sense of duty to the country (vicar's daughter and all) and will not quit unless there is a clear alternative to take over from her. Unlike mkhan2525, I do not think she is power-hungry and would go if there is a viable (Conservative) alternative.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by Daniann » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:18 am


Manchester171
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by Manchester171 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:04 pm

I don't understand what do they mean by Britain will guarantee rights for as yet unborn children who join EU parents after Brexit?!

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bruteforce
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by bruteforce » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:52 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42277040

Anyone else call it a breakthrough deal? I don't. When we get the fine print, I am sure it would be more or less meeting ALL of EU's demands.

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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by Mugen » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:03 am

It looks like for 8 years after Brexit or until 2027 it will be no much change.

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bruteforce
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by bruteforce » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:34 pm

https://gov.smartwebportal.co.uk/homeof ... id2=627DF7

In case this has not been posted on this forum before.

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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by bruteforce » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:13 pm

Dear xxxx,

I’m proud that so many EU citizens like yourself have built your lives in the UK and made it your home. We value your contribution which is why the Government put safeguarding your rights as the first priority in the Brexit negotiations.

I am absolutely delighted that we have now reached an agreement with the EU that does this. I know that at times you’ve had an anxious wait while the fine details were ironed out, but we wanted to get it right and we have always had you at the forefront of our thoughts.

We have always said that we will continue to recognise the value you bring to our society, and that we will remain an open and diverse country. Hopefully this deal provides reassurance that we will do just that.

The agreement we have reached ensures the rights you and your family currently have remain broadly the same with access to healthcare, benefits and pensions protected. And your existing close family members living outside the UK retain the right to join you in future. These rights will be cemented in UK law meaning you can live your life as you do now with the security of knowing they won’t change. Irish citizens also have their existing rights, associated with the Common Travel Area arrangements, protected.

Away from the negotiations, my team at the Home Office has been working hard to build the digital system that you’ll use to get your new status. It’s being designed from scratch to be quick and simple to use. There won’t be bureaucratic hurdles – those processing applications will work in your favour.

What’s more, it will cost no more than the fee a British person pays for a passport and if you already have valid permanent residence documentation it will be free. There will be support for the vulnerable and those without access to a computer, and we’re working with EU citizens’ representatives and embassies to ensure the system works for everyone.

You do not need to do anything just yet. You will see more detail about the settled status scheme from us in the new year and we expect applications will open during the second half of 2018. In the meantime, please do share this message with your friends and family so that they too can stay up to date through our mailing list.

I hope that the agreement we have reached provides certainty to you and your family ahead of Christmas. EU citizens, like yourself, who have made the UK their home are our family, our neighbours and our colleagues and we want you to stay.

Have a very happy Christmas.

Yours sincerely,

Amber Rudd
Home Secretary

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Brexit negotiation update for EU citizens

Post by rooibos » Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:09 pm

This has just come into my inbox:

[quote]
Brexit negotiation update for EU citizens
Home Office <hocommunications@communications.homeoffice.gov.uk>
19:39

https://eucitizensrights.campaign.gov.uk/

As Brexit negotiations continue, this is the latest information on the status of EU citizens in the UK and how you are affected.

You may have seen this week that the UK and the EU have now reached an agreement on what happens during the period immediately after Brexit, known as the implementation period. This is important as it will give citizens and businesses on both sides time to adjust before a new relationship with the EU is agreed.

So, what has been agreed so far and how will you be affected?

EU citizens currently in the UK


The agreement on citizens’ rights reached in December has now been formalised into a draft Treaty text, meaning it is in the right form to be written into law.

The agreement means that if you are an EU citizen living in the UK before the UK leaves the EU on 29 March 2019 you will be able to continue to live and work in the UK. Your rights to healthcare, work arrangements and access to benefits will continue. Also, your existing close family members will be able to join you in future in the same way that they can now. You can read more here: Status of EU citizens in the UK: what you need to know.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/status-of-e ... ed-to-know

From this week, EU citizens in the UK have been seeing digital adverts encouraging you to ‘stay informed’. The activity is part of an ongoing effort by the Government to build awareness about the agreement to protect EU citizens’ rights ahead of the roll-out of the settlement scheme. As a member of this mailing list, you will continue to receive the latest information on how you are affected and what action you will need to take in future.

Settlement scheme

If you are an EU citizen or family member already living in the UK, a user-friendly scheme to enable you to secure your settled status here will open later this year. But there is no rush – you will have up until 30 June 2021 to make your application.

We will provide more information on the scheme and how to apply in the coming months. You do not need to do anything further at this point.

Implementation period

The agreement we reached with the EU this week extends the citizens’ rights protections above to include EU citizens and their family members arriving in the UK during the implementation period (from 30 March 2019 to 31 December 2020). This ensures that those planning to come to the UK after March next year know what the arrangements will be. During this time, new arrivals will need to register through a new Home Office registration scheme after three months in the UK.

More information is available at UK leaving the EU: what you need to know.
https://www.gov.uk/government/collectio ... ed-to-know


[/quote]

secret.simon
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by secret.simon » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:40 pm

The Guardian - EU parents warned children need papers to stay in UK after Brexit
“Where neither of the parents is British at the time of the child’s birth, a child will later struggle to prove the British citizenship to which he or she is entitled from birth,” says the immigration barrister Colin Yeo, one of the authors.

Yeo said the issue stems from the fact that British nationality laws on acquisition of British citizenship were written long before the freedom of movement rules gave any EU citizen moving to another member state automatic right of permanent residence after a period of time.

There is no published data on the number of children born to two EU citizens in the UK, but researchers believe it will run to thousands if not tens of thousands.

Children born to EU citizens in the UK are not automatically entitled to British citizenship if they were born after 2000 when immigration rules changed. But they could remain in the country without issue as EU citizens under EU law.

Post-Brexit they will need to demonstrate that they have the right to be in the country once they turn 18 and this will turn on the rights of their parents.
Simply put, EEA citizens generally have never needed to prove their residence in the UK and hence generally lack the Home Office paper-trail that non-EEA citizens (those here both under the UK Immigration Rules and the EEA Regulations) have. Thus, if they need to prove something like residence years into the future (say in the 2040s-50s), it may be impossible.

Much better for EEA citizens to get their Home Office paperwork sorted asap (either now or in the transition period) and if their children are eligible (British born children with atleast one parent having PR, for instance), for those children to be registered as British citizens.

It is also particularly important for the parent to get a DCPR if the child automatically acquired British citizenship because they were born in the UK after their EEA parent acquired PR. They may be questioned years into the future about their acquisition of British citizenship and it may be vital that they have documentary proof (such as a DCPR and letter from the Home Office) that their parent had acquired PR in the UK before their birth.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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Artur111
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by Artur111 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:22 pm

Dear all,

Based on what I have read above, will I be able to register myself and get settled status if I am a PR holder (was married to EEA national, then divorce, retained my rights and obtained PR in 2015)?

Above I can read that "EEA citizens and their family members already living in the UK will be able to register later on this year", I am not sure if I fall l under that category...

Thank you in advance for your inputs.

Artur
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Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow.
The important thing is not to stop questioning.

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bruteforce
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by bruteforce » Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:27 pm

If you have PR since 2015 then you can apply for British citizenship now provided you meet all other requirements.

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Artur111
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by Artur111 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:47 pm

My country doesn't allow to have extra citizenships unfortunately.
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bruteforce
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by bruteforce » Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:54 pm

You can the. Carry on keeping this PR and it should be no no problem. UK will most likely change your PR into something like ILR in the future so it’s all good.

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Artur111
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by Artur111 » Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:27 pm

I have been just asking for some clearance in a status for PR holders like myself.

Obviously I will stick to PR status, I do not have any other choice. but I have thought maybe someone would be input some more certainty.

Thank you.
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Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow.
The important thing is not to stop questioning.

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Alanran
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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by Alanran » Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:05 am

Hi guys,
I have one question , what the position of family member who hold already PR since 2017 but got divorce in 2018( one year after the PR ) ?

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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by Richard W » Tue May 01, 2018 8:43 pm

Artur111 wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:22 pm
Above I can read that "EEA citizens and their family members already living in the UK will be able to register later on this year", I am not sure if I fall l under that category...
That's the problem. It seems to me that you are no longer a family member, and therefore do not come under the scope of the agreement. However, that doesn't feel right, and I suspect you would win an appeal to the EUCJ, whose judgements don't always make sense to me. Under the EU Regulations promulgated by the UK government, you lost your retained right of residence when you acquired permanent residence. I am by no means sure that that little regulation is valid under EU law.

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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by Alanran » Tue May 01, 2018 10:43 pm

Richard W wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 8:43 pm
Artur111 wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:22 pm
Above I can read that "EEA citizens and their family members already living in the UK will be able to register later on this year", I am not sure if I fall l under that category...
That's the problem. It seems to me that you are no longer a family member, and therefore do not come under the scope of the agreement. However, that doesn't feel right, and I suspect you would win an appeal to the EUCJ, whose judgements don't always make sense to me. Under the EU Regulations promulgated by the UK government, you lost your retained right of residence when you acquired permanent residence. I am by no means sure that that little regulation is valid under EU law.
Sorry but within the withdraw agreement , Article 17 , clause (h):

(( persons who, before the end of the transition period, are holders of a valid permanent residence document issued under Article 19 or 20 of Directive 2004/38/EC or a valid domestic immigration document conferring a permanent right to reside in the host State, shall have the right to exchange that document within two years of the end of the transition period for a new residence document after a verification of their identity, a criminality and security check in accordance with point (p) of this paragraph and confirmation of ongoing residence; such a document shall be free of charge))

If you go through the withdraw agreement they always mention( EU citizen or family member ) but when you come to Clause (h) article 17 they say PERSON , which it’s mean regardless the nationality .. which it’s mean any EU or other nationality ( recent family member or ex family member who already issued PR ).

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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by Richard W » Thu May 03, 2018 12:44 am

Alanran wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 10:43 pm
If you go through the withdraw agreement they always mention( EU citizen or family member ) but when you come to Clause (h) article 17 they say PERSON , which it’s mean regardless the nationality .. which it’s mean any EU or other nationality ( recent family member or ex family member who already issued PR ).
Where it says family member, it seems to be referring to the equivalent of a present day residence card, so that argument fails. Now, when it comes to someone who has achieved PR and had it documented, they need not still be a family member when the time comes to apply for the new settled status.

To be covered by the agreement, one must qualify under Article 9.

As I read it, Artur III would retain his right of residence if he were to marry a Bulgarian (other than as a marriage of convenience), even if she never lived in the UK! The principle here is that family members retain their rights, even if they were obtained as someone else's family member.

A problem with Alanran's argument is that it would imply a difference between PR evidenced by a PRC and PR achieved but not yet acknowledged by the state.

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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by Richard W » Thu May 03, 2018 6:22 am

On my reading, it isn't just TCNs who depended on a *retained* right of residence who are left out. TCNs who went straight from family member to permanent resident now stand to lose their right of residence, such as widows, widowers and now-independent, adult stepchildren. It will even affect those who have automatically lost an EEA nationality - Danish nationality can expire due to having little connection to the Danish Realm.

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Re: EU & Brexit Deal

Post by Alanran » Thu May 03, 2018 8:26 am

I start to be confused Richard W, is that mean a family member who obtained already PR and then after the PR get divorced , will lost his right and can’t apply for settled status ?

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